Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I'd like to see a longer list than this, there are more than six highly skilled fighters.

How many atg skilled guys are their that I can mention,,, I guess you can throw in arguello benetiz, napoles, hearns, Benny Leonard, pep,


I don't get the point,,,

I would love for u to show me the fights when Roy used technical skill to beat an opponent and not his freak of nature athletic talent

[IronDanHamza]

You don't think Hopkins was shot for the last 10'plus years,, or toney was completely shot by 2000,, or holyfield shot by the bowe 3 fight, Duran was shot after hearts ko

No I don't. Hopkins isn't shot now.

Toney wasn't shot in 2000 either.

None of those fighters were shot by then.

Roy Jones has been shot, literally shot to pieces since 2004.

Guys that have true technical skills can delay the inevitable a lot longer whereas guys that don't have great technical skills and rely on natural gifts are doomed once that athletic edge slips like Roy, Leonard, etc,,, once those youthful explosive is gone they are toast

Shaquille o'neil is one of the greatest basketball players ever, but he wasn't that skilled, just a freak of nature like roy

You're putting everyone in the same boat. Fighters are different.

Ali wasn't technically sound but he went on for years after he started slipping. Because fighters are different.

It's like saying, "Ali's not skilled, he's just talented because when he started slipping he didn't dominate like he did in the 60's"

Or even saying "Ali's not skilled because Holmes and Berbick beat the **** out of him when he was shot".

But obviously, Ali was extremely skilled.

Just because you're not technical doesn't mean you're not skilled.

And both Ali and Roy Jones were two extremely skilled fighters.

[IronDanHamza]

How many atg skilled guys are their that I can mention,,, I guess you can throw in arguello benetiz, napoles, hearns, Benny Leonard, pep,


I don't get the point,,,

I would love for u to show me the fights when Roy used technical skill to beat an opponent and not his freak of nature athletic talent

Out of the guys you mentioned Benitez, Napoles and Pep, all 3 of those have insane talent and rely on talent aswell.

You think if Benitez didn't have the relfexes and ability he'd be able to do what he did? Same as Pep.

I don't understand why Roy Jones is put aside as a guy without skills just because he had insane talent and ability to go with it.

When he slows down he struggled obviously because that was a big part of his success but that doesn't mean he isn't skilled.

[RubenSonny]

How many atg skilled guys are their that I can mention,,, I guess you can throw in arguello benetiz, napoles, hearns, Benny Leonard, pep,


I don't get the point,,,

I would love for u to show me the fights when Roy used technical skill to beat an opponent and not his freak of nature athletic talent

Now do you see that your logic is flawed.

What does technical skill even mean? He beat every opponent with skill.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

After reading your posts, I genuinely don't think Nunn, Eubanks and Collins would've done anything in your eyes to make RJJ top 20 ATG in your book. All I've seen so far were excuses around the guys RJJ actually beat (i.e. Hopkins wasn't ready yet, Toney was over weight, Hill was old, McCallum was old and a joke), etc... I just can't see how Nunn and Collins or even Frankie Liles would've somehow made a difference for you.

We'll just have to disagree here.

Because the guys I mentioned were all champs at one point when Roy was champ..

Remind me again of all the unification fights at 160 and 168 Roy had,

From 93-97 name the top ten guys at 160 and 168, and the list won't have Hopkins on it, he was unknown, and toney will be the only guy on the list that roy fought..

You can't sit there and say Brannon, Paz, Byrd, Lucas, etc are better fighters than Eubanks,Watson, liles etc

Roy did good at 175 and I give him props for pretty much clearing it out, though I think mccallum was a horrible win, and hill was solid.. Harding, woods, tarver, we're his best wins at 175 IMO,, johnson and griffin close as well, but none are atg wins, let alone enough to get you into top 20 atg

[RubenSonny]

Out of the guys you mentioned Benitez, Napoles and Pep, all 3 of those have insane talent and rely on talent aswell.

You think if Benitez didn't have the relfexes and ability he'd be able to do what he did? Same as Pep.

I don't understand why Roy Jones is put aside as a guy without skills just because he had insane talent and ability to go with it.

When he slows down he struggled obviously because that was a big part of his success but that doesn't mean he isn't skilled.

It's like saying if Louis didn't have his power he wouldn't have been great. Fighters are what they are and skills are inseparable from your physical attributes. As far as I'm concerned there isn't an ATG without great skills.

[BoxingGenius27]

Because the guys I mentioned were all champs at one point when Roy was champ..

Remind me again of all the unification fights at 160 and 168 Roy had,

From 93-97 name the top ten guys at 160 and 168, and the list won't have Hopkins on it, he was unknown, and toney will be the only guy on the list that roy fought..

You can't sit there and say Brannon, Paz, Byrd, Lucas, etc are better fighters than Eubanks,Watson, liles etc

Roy did good at 175 and I give him props for pretty much clearing it out, though I think mccallum was a horrible win, and hill was solid.. Harding, woods, tarver, we're his best wins at 175 IMO,, johnson and griffin close as well, but none are atg wins, let alone enough to get you into top 20 atg

I can't remember if they were champs or not during the times you're talking, but I do know there was no public outcry for these fights you talk about.

Your other problem is you're mentioning a lot of the UK champs. No disrespect to IronDan and my other UK buds on here, but they were the K-9 Bundrages of their division and boxing. The US was the gold standard. Was Roy supposed to go to the UK or something? Heck no.

K-9 was a champ, but that didn't mean he should've fought Floyd Mayweather in some unification fight.

[RubenSonny]

I guess Benitez wasn't skilled since he couldn't do anything past his mid 20s, not even as skilled as unskilled Roy who at least managed to keep it together up to his 30s.

[RubenSonny]

I'm seeing a whole lot of talk here but no lists.

[IronDanHamza]

I can't remember if they were champs or not during the times you're talking, but I do know there was no public outcry for these fights you talk about.

Your other problem is you're mentioning a lot of the UK champs. No disrespect to IronDan and my other UK buds on here, but they were the K-9 Bundrages of their division and boxing.

K-9 was a champ, but that didn't mean he should've fought Floyd Mayweather in some unification fight.

Haha, no I agree with you.

We had our own SMW tournament-esque stuff going on over here. We had a lot of good SMW's in that time but it was more of a domestic dust up.

Benn and Collins went over and fought some USA guys like Barkley, McCallum, McClellan etc but those fighters and Roy were never really on each others radar.

The only time a fight with Roy could have possibly been made and made sense was when Benn beat McClellan, maybe. But even then, not so much.

Collins talks about how Roy was ducking him in the late 90's but that's straight bull****, frankly.