Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[!! Shawn]

I thought you said Toney was over weight or something like that. But you were sure to throw in the part "I don't take anything from RJJ because it wasn't his fault", but you were taking something away from his win.

McCallum fight wasn't a joke.

Again, the guys you're saying RJJ "should've" fought were lesser tiered fighters then who he actually beat, but somehow they would've gotten the job done in your eyes and made RJJ's legacy better? I mean come on, you said Michael Nunn who was done after the Toney fight...

You say McCallum was a joke, but the Nunn fight would've been legit?

He also said that Spinks was a southpaw.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

That's ****** logic, I'd like you to list the the guys you consider the most skilled fighters.

Hopkins, Floyd, Duran, Archie Moore, Srr toney

Roy had smarts and great athletic ability and tremendous power n explosiveness but he was not a great technically sound fighter.. It was an advantage early in his career but a hinderance later once past his prime, even though guys like Hopkins and Floyd and even manny last much longer at top level...

It's really easy to see actually.. I'm pretty surprised you don't see it.. Manny got iced by jmm and had many more wars and mileage than Roy, and is still going to be able to most fighters right now,, same thing with Hopkins, and Floyd,, there best days are far behind him yet still compete at championship level, whereas Roy is able to beat club fighters and that's it... He wasn't even competitive vs B level fighters like tarver, johnson, green, lebedev
Duran was fighting past prime, up in weight and vs atg prime fighters and competiting

Roy was not able to do this because once he was not a great technically skilled fighter... Either that or Roy was smoke and mirrors that only took one big fight vs toney

[!! Shawn]

Hopkins, Floyd, Duran, Archie Moore, Srr toney

Roy had smarts and great athletic ability and tremendous power n explosiveness but he was not a great technically sound fighter.. It was an advantage early in his career but a hinderance later once past his prime, even though guys like Hopkins and Floyd and even manny last much longer at top level...

It's really easy to see actually.. I'm pretty surprised you don't see it.. Manny got iced by jmm and had many more wars and mileage than Roy, and is still going to be able to most fighters right now,, same thing with Hopkins, and Floyd,, there best days are far behind him yet still compete at championship level, whereas Roy is able to beat club fighters and that's it... He wasn't even competitive vs B level fighters like tarver, johnson, green, lebedev
Duran was fighting past prime, up in weight and vs atg prime fighters and competiting

Roy was not able to do this because once he was not a great technically skilled fighter... Either that or Roy was smoke and mirrors that only took one big fight vs toney

roy has wins over 2 of them

[IronDanHamza]

Hopkins, Floyd, Duran, Archie Moore, Srr toney

Roy had smarts and great athletic ability and tremendous power n explosiveness but he was not a great technically sound fighter.. It was an advantage early in his career but a hinderance later once past his prime, even though guys like Hopkins and Floyd and even manny last much longer at top level...

It's really easy to see actually.. I'm pretty surprised you don't see it.. Manny got iced by jmm and had many more wars and mileage than Roy, and is still going to be able to most fighters right now,, same thing with Hopkins, and Floyd,, there best days are far behind him yet still compete at championship level, whereas Roy is able to beat club fighters and that's it... He wasn't even competitive vs B level fighters like tarver, johnson, green, lebedev
Duran was fighting past prime, up in weight and vs atg prime fighters and competiting

Roy was not able to do this because once he was not a great technically skilled fighter... Either that or Roy was smoke and mirrors that only took one big fight vs toney

Roy was shot by then though. No one's competitive when they're shot. I don't see how that shows anything.

And he was pretty competitive against Lebedev I thought.

He wasn't technically sound but why do you have to be technically sound to be skilled?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I thought you said Toney was over weight or something like that. But you were sure to throw in the part "I don't take anything from RJJ because it wasn't his fault", but you were taking something away from his win.

McCallum fight wasn't a joke.

Again, the guys you're saying RJJ "should've" fought were lesser tiered fighters then who he actually beat, but somehow they would've gotten the job done in your eyes and made RJJ's legacy better? I mean come on, you said Michael Nunn who was done after the Toney fight...

You say McCallum was a joke, and Hill was old but the Nunn fight would've been legit?

Like I said a few pages ago,,, same guys that don't claim toney was out of shape and having issues,, are the exact same guys that say tarver beat a drained Roy,,, no it can't be both ways,, maybe tarver just exposed Roy and beat his ass and then johnson and everyone else did the same

I will say that nunn would be the weakest, especially when he was Roy's #1 contender in 97 at 168... I wanted them to fight in 93/94 when nunn was still champ at 168

And I have also been on record saying many times that I don't expect Roy to fight all the guys I mention,, just 2 or 3 would have been fine, especially when u consider the lackluster opponents Roy had in the 90s..

And yes mccallum a joke,it's worse than manny beating mosely which unaware talk trash about, but now think mccallum is a great win and proves Roy is top 20 atg...

[RubenSonny]

Hopkins, Floyd, Duran, Archie Moore, Srr toney

Roy had smarts and great athletic ability and tremendous power n explosiveness but he was not a great technically sound fighter.. It was an advantage early in his career but a hinderance later once past his prime, even though guys like Hopkins and Floyd and even manny last much longer at top level...

It's really easy to see actually.. I'm pretty surprised you don't see it.. Manny got iced by jmm and had many more wars and mileage than Roy, and is still going to be able to most fighters right now,, same thing with Hopkins, and Floyd,, there best days are far behind him yet still compete at championship level, whereas Roy is able to beat club fighters and that's it... He wasn't even competitive vs B level fighters like tarver, johnson, green, lebedev
Duran was fighting past prime, up in weight and vs atg prime fighters and competiting

Roy was not able to do this because once he was not a great technically skilled fighter... Either that or Roy was smoke and mirrors that only took one big fight vs toney

I'd like to see a longer list than this, there are more than six highly skilled fighters.

[IronDanHamza]

Like I said a few pages ago,,, same guys that don't claim toney was out of shape and having issues,, are the exact same guys that say tarver beat a drained Roy,,, no it can't be both ways,, maybe tarver just exposed Roy and beat his ass and then johnson and everyone else did the same

I will say that nunn would be the weakest, especially when he was Roy's #1 contender in 97 at 168... I wanted them to fight in 93/94 when nunn was still champ at 168

And I have also been on record saying many times that I don't expect Roy to fight all the guys I mention,, just 2 or 3 would have been fine, especially when u consider the lackluster opponents Roy had in the 90s..

And yes mccallum a joke,it's worse than manny beating mosely which unaware talk trash about, but now think mccallum is a great win and proves Roy is top 20 atg...

I want to know why Toney was out of shape for Roy but not anyone else.

You still haven't answered that question.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

He also said that Spinks was a southpaw.

Dude I write hundreds of posts every week and thousands every year,,, when doing that u will have mistakes, especially when thinking about multiple fighters,, had about 5 guys on my mind one being hagler and tarver and spinks, and awkwards style....
I know my mistakes on wording and will own up

roy has wins over 2 of them

Yes because he was tremendously talented and super athletic freak of nature, not because he had better skills

Roy was shot by then though. No one's competitive when they're shot. I don't see how that shows anything.

And he was pretty competitive against Lebedev I thought.

He wasn't technically sound but why do you have to be technically sound to be skilled?

You don't think Hopkins was shot for the last 10'plus years,, or toney was completely shot by 2000,, or holyfield shot by the bowe 3 fight, Duran was shot after hearts ko
Guys that have true technical skills can delay the inevitable a lot longer whereas guys that don't have great technical skills and rely on natural gifts are doomed once that athletic edge slips like Roy, Leonard, etc,,, once those youthful explosive is gone they are toast

Shaquille o'neil is one of the greatest basketball players ever, but he wasn't that skilled, just a freak of nature like roy

[BoxingGenius27]

And I have also been on record saying many times that I don't expect Roy to fight all the guys I mention,, just 2 or 3 would have been fine, especially when u consider the lackluster opponents Roy had in the 90s..

..

After reading your posts, I genuinely don't think Nunn, Eubanks and Collins would've done anything in your eyes to make RJJ top 20 ATG in your book. All I've seen so far were excuses around the guys RJJ actually beat (i.e. Hopkins wasn't ready yet, Toney was over weight, Hill was old, McCallum was old and a joke), etc... I just can't see how Nunn and Collins or even Frankie Liles would've somehow made a difference for you.

We'll just have to disagree here.

[ippo]

Hes the most physically gifted fighter in the history of boxing.He can beat any fighter from 160-175 in his prime.