Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

What's the difference between that and the McCallum fight?

He was always that heavy going into camp and always had to shead of loads of weight for every fight he had at 160-168.

This was the case for all of Toney's fights yet he was only out of shape for the one with Roy Jones. Why? Seems to be the only reason is because he dominated him.

Maybe Roy's just that good?

IronDan you a smart guy, you have to be able to tell the difference between mccallum fight and roy fight,,, Toney was an oddball, and could shine or shot himself in the foot,,,

He stayed really active in 91, 92 when fighting mccallum,,, jackie his manager said toney needed to fight 6-10 times a year to stay in shape and keep him active and not give him any breaks, but by 94 he was established star, he was still active but only fight 4 or 5 times a year, and that was just too much free time for james, and he would balloon like crazy

Regardless if toney was peak or not,,, that one win does not put roy in top 20 ATG

[IronDanHamza]

IronDan you a smart guy, you have to be able to tell the difference between mccallum fight and roy fight,,, Toney was an oddball, and could shine or shot himself in the foot,,,

He stayed really active in 91, 92 when fighting mccallum,,, jackie his manager said toney needed to fight 6-10 times a year to stay in shape and keep him active and not give him any breaks, but by 94 he was established star, he was still active but only fight 4 or 5 times a year, and that was just too much free time for james, and he would balloon like crazy

Regardless if toney was peak or not,,, that one win does not put roy in top 20 ATG

No, I'm asking you what the difference is in what you said.

You said Toney was so many lbs overweight in the lead up to the fight.

What's the difference between that and the McCallum fight?

He was always around that weight in the lead up.

The only thing you've told me that's the difference is that Roy dominated and McCallum didn't. That's the only actual reasoning you've given me.

Toney wasn't in any worse shape for the Roy Jones fight than he was for any other fight he had.

Maybe Roy's that good? Why's that not in the equation?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

true but I saw an interview a while a go where toney said that he was in great shape but roy was just too good ... so maybe he's getting more honest in his dotage

Never heard him say that,,, im a huge roy, toney, evander, chavez fan and can confidently say i know more about those guys than any other fighters

I can believe james said that,, it just contradicts everything his team had said for years...

Even if toney was top condition, roy would still probably outpoint him, just in a super close fight instead of a wide UD

[IronDanHamza]

Never heard him say that,,, im a huge roy, toney, evander, chavez fan and can confidently say i know more about those guys than any other fighters

I can believe james said that,, it just contradicts everything his team had said for years...

Even if toney was top condition, roy would still probably outpoint him, just in a super close fight instead of a wide UD

Toney contradicts himself all the time and always has.

And see that's the thing, you say he's out of shape because you can't believe that Roy could dominate him without him being out of shape. Saying that it would be a super close fight "If he was in shape"

You have nothing to actually suggest he was in any worse shape than he was ever in.

It's an excuse.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

No, I'm asking you what the difference is in what you said.

You said Toney was so many lbs overweight in the lead up to the fight.

What's the difference between that and the McCallum fight?

He was always around that weight in the lead up.

The only thing you've told me that's the difference is that Roy dominated and McCallum didn't. That's the only actual reasoning you've given me.

Toney wasn't in any worse shape for the Roy Jones fight than he was for any other fight he had.

Maybe Roy's that good? Why's that not in the equation?

No toney, from all i have read and heard, was in good shape in 90-92 because they were fighting him all the time, and his handlers knew you give him 2 weeks off he will be a fatboy,,, and there was alittle over 2 months between fights for toney leading into roy, i believe...

Honestly i dont want to debate this forever, I dont think it was peak toney, and even if it was its still not enough to make you top 20 ATG

Like you always say in history section,, its resume,, not H2h and roy's resume is not one of the best 20 of all time,, he is top 50,, probably around 25,, but not top 20

[Brandish]

IronDan you a smart guy, you have to be able to tell the difference between mccallum fight and roy fight,,, Toney was an oddball, and could shine or shot himself in the foot,,,

He stayed really active in 91, 92 when fighting mccallum,,, jackie his manager said toney needed to fight 6-10 times a year to stay in shape and keep him active and not give him any breaks, but by 94 he was established star, he was still active but only fight 4 or 5 times a year, and that was just too much free time for james, and he would balloon like crazy

Regardless if toney was peak or not,,, that one win does not put roy in top 20 ATG

Roy has dominated in every weight class he competed in.

Has defended every title he ever won.

From 160-175 Roy has 21 title defenses defeating over 20 world champions of course he's top 5

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Toney contradicts himself all the time and always has.

And see that's the thing, you say he's out of shape because you can't believe that Roy could dominate him without him being out of shape. Saying that it would be a super close fight "If he was in shape"

You have nothing to actually suggest he was in any worse shape than he was ever in.

It's an excuse.

No its not an excuse,,, Just how i feel from all the reports i have heard about that fight,,,,
Just watch the fight,,, he looked flat and only about 3 times in the mid rounds did he show any type of spring in his legs,,,

And i have said repeatedly that jones would probably beat him everytime vs any version of toney, just like how i think roy would beat hopkins at anytime, thats why i have roy much higher in terms of ATG, he just isnt top 20 for me

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Roy has dominated in every weight class he competed in.

Has defended every title he ever won.

From 160-175 Roy has 21 title defenses defeating over 20 world champions of course he's top 5

Name these world champs he defended against

list the mw defenses

list the 168 defenses,,,

he defended vs crap,,, he won the belts from hopkins for a vacant, and toney,, but its laughable to suggest he defended those belts,,, please name the defenses,,,

Everyone gets a belt so its not hard to "defend vs champs"

Mundine just beat mosely,, is that beating a champ

broner has 3 division champ LMAO


Its about quality, not garbage paper champs,,,

At 175 roy did beat everyone,, i give him huge props for his 175 reign, but it was a weak era compared to some other eras,,, he wouldnt be that dominant vs the lhw of the 70's early 80s


So please name these great champs he defended against

[IronDanHamza]

No its not an excuse,,, Just how i feel from all the reports i have heard about that fight,,,,
Just watch the fight,,, he looked flat and only about 3 times in the mid rounds did he show any type of spring in his legs,,,

And i have said repeatedly that jones would probably beat him everytime vs any version of toney, just like how i think roy would beat hopkins at anytime, thats why i have roy much higher in terms of ATG, he just isnt top 20 for me

It is an excuse though. Like literally, it's an excuse as to why he dominated the fight in your words.

You're saying if Toney was in shape, it would have been a close fight.

So literally, it's an excuse you're using.

Toney being out of shape is an opinion you have that's pretty much based off nothing other than Toney saying it which he said every single time he looked bad.

[Brandish]

Name these world champs he defended against

list the mw defenses

list the 168 defenses,,,

he defended vs crap,,, he won the belts from hopkins for a vacant, and toney,, but its laughable to suggest he defended those belts,,, please name the defenses,,,

Everyone gets a belt so its not hard to "defend vs champs"

Mundine just beat mosely,, is that beating a champ

broner has 3 division champ LMAO


Its about quality, not garbage paper champs,,,

At 175 roy did beat everyone,, i give him huge props for his 175 reign, but it was a weak era compared to some other eras,,, he wouldnt be that dominant vs the lhw of the 70's early 80s


So please name these great champs he defended against

Go look it up on box rec your downing the guy but he fought who mattered and for starting at 154 and unifying 175 and w inning a heavy title shows what Roy is made of.

You would have an argument if Roy had a career like Duran winning a title and never defending it.