Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[Big_L]

Hill wasn't as good as cotto is now,, griffin was a sweet ko, but he is at best a B level fighter, and def not an atg caliber win for a resume..

Samuel Peter crushed jeremy Williams and others but once he faced top guys his power did nothing for him

hill and griffin were very good fighters and roy took them out. that's what you asked for. stop trying to discredit everybody.

what does samuel peter have to do with anything? i said roy had skills. never said he was a KO artist.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

You don't really know anything about Roy outside the ring so you can't speak on that. Roy had been brutally trained from a very young age, so you can't act like he hadn't started burning out, all of that adds up in your later life. His career still lasted longer than Benitez and he was slipping way before the Tarver fight. I guess Ezzard Charles was also not very skilled?

No I don't know jones but I have never heard one bad story about him being unprofessional in training,, and yes I will agree that Roy was probably burnt out for the johnson fight... That's the only time I have ever heard of Roy not taking it seriously..

Ezra's Charles was fighting all the time, you can't really compare Roy fighting 2-3 times a year vs Charles that was fighting much more often, vs much better competition

He's a shot fighter, it doesn't matter if he was the most skilled fighter that's why he doesn't win anymore it's that simple.

He is shot because he got his arse beat when his athletic traits waned and he didn't have top level fundamentals to fall back on...
And yes fundamentals are skills,, they are the basic building blocks, hence why they are fundamental

You didn't explain it.

You said that Benitez got shot quicker because he turned pro younger.

That doesn't explain how he's one of the most skilled fighters of all time according to your definition because according to your definition, he can't be because when he starting slipping he stopped performing.

Of course his skills got him far. Why do I assume that all Roy Jones had is talent? Roy Jones didn't do what he did solely because of his talent. If he didn't have the skills that he did he wouldn't have been able to do what he did.

You don't absolute dominate James Toney solely with talent.

You're assuming that because Roy Jones didn't perform like he did when he started slipping that he wasn't skilled. That's not the case.

Like I said in the other post, the same thing happened with Ali. Was Ali not skilled?

Was Ray Robinson not skilled?

Your examples are bad,, Ali slipped and still won major fights but it was a whole lot harder for him

Robinson slipped, retired, cameback and still own titles

Both Ali and robinson were still competing at high levels when on the downhill slide, roy was getting best up by b level fighters
And like I said earlier Ali benefitted from being in the heavy division where there isn't so much top level skills like movement and defense,, had he been in the lower weights at that time he would have gotten beat up by monzon, Duran, napoles, etc. guys like foreman, norton are pretty easy to find in the ring

[pesticid]

I just got two names that were in their prime and what Roy did to them - Bhop and James Toney.

Pound for Pound I don't think anybody can favour anybody over Roy from 160 to 168. His size, his speed, his strength power, ring awareness, IQ, incredible endurance. He can be beat but in his prime from 160 to 168 I don't know who one could favour over him.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

He was doing all that stuff in his prime though anyway.

that may be,, but it will always catch up to you eventually like it did Wilfredo... Roy, like foreman, Hopkins, Floyd always led a clean lifestyle

Roy Jones was crafty and did some tricky stuff aswell.

Benitez was more conventional but he still heavily relied on his talent and ability.

Benitez lacked ethic but he absolutely started slipping and declining very rapidly and when he did he stopped performing completely.

Yet he's one of the most skilled ever and Roy Jones isn't in the discussion?

Benetiz never relied on his raw athletic explosiveness that Roy had,,, Benitez had great reflexes and timing,, he wasn't an athletic freak like Roy was

hill and griffin were very good fighters and roy took them out. that's what you asked for. stop trying to discredit everybody.

what does samuel peter have to do with anything? i said roy had skills. never said he was a KO artist.

I'm not trying to discredit anyone.. Hill and griffin solid wins.. Ok,, doesn't make you top 20 atg.. If those wins are in your top 5 wins then your not top 20 atg.. Solid wins, ranked guys' but nothing fantastic

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I just got two names that were in their prime and what Roy did to them - Bhop and James Toney.

Pound for Pound I don't think anybody can favour anybody over Roy from 160 to 168. His size, his speed, his strength power, ring awareness, IQ, incredible endurance. He can be beat but in his prime from 160 to 168 I don't know who one could favour over him.

I can agree to that,,, except for the dude has 2 wins vs credible guys at those weights...h2h Roy would be a nightmare for anyone... I think only a prime hagler,monzon, are the only guys I think would be favored over Roy at those weights and even then it would be super close odds

[!! Shawn]

Ruben,, I explained Benitez in earlier post I just made,,,,

Roy at the highest top pro level could just stand and box with guys like jmm or Hopkins or Floyd can do...
Roy needed that athletic edge,, because at the top level he once he slowed down,he didn't have anything to fall back on,,, all he does in fights since Ruiz is: not be able to work off the jab vs top guys, and without having the same explosiveness he can't get his highlight reel combos off, even though his hand speed is still very fast, can't set up combos off the jab and movement like Floyd and Hopkins do, so he potshots and backs into the ropes but doesn't have the slick defense of toney or Floyd to avoid punches and gets lit up, and eventually stopped... That is every single top level fight since 2003...'the exact same thing all 3 times vs tarver, johnson, Hopkins, calzaghe etc

Roy's fundamentals are not good for a top level fighter, yes he is more skillful than journeymen but championship level, his skills don't get him very far without his athletic abiltiy

HAHAHA! You are talking about Floyd like he actually throws combos... 1 punch at a time Floyd...

Give me a break dude. You are getting demolished by everyone that posts in this thread.

Give it up. Roy was better than Floyd. I know that kills you.

[RubenSonny]

No I don't know jones but I have never heard one bad story about him being unprofessional in training,, and yes I will agree that Roy was probably burnt out for the johnson fight... That's the only time I have ever heard of Roy not taking it seriously..

Ezra's Charles was fighting all the time, you can't really compare Roy fighting 2-3 times a year vs Charles that was fighting much more often, vs much better competition

Well then why not compare Charles to Robinson who had a longer career. You seem to think it fine to compare Robinson to Jones.

He is shot because he got his arse beat when his athletic traits waned and he didn't have top level fundamentals to fall back on...
And yes fundamentals are skills,, they are the basic building blocks, hence why they are fundamental

He is shot because he got old and was burnt out, that's why he continued getting his ass beat. Fundamentals do exist but they are very basic and Roy has them, boxing has never been taught in a textbook.

[Mr.Fantastic]

He moved pretty n people rate that without looking at his weak resume. Plus he's black n american which makes people look at it more with invisibility.

[RubenSonny]

HAHAHA! You are talking about Floyd like he actually throws combos... 1 punch at a time Floyd...

Give me a break dude. You are getting demolished by everyone that posts in this thread.

Give it up. Roy was better than Floyd. I know that kills you.

Sugar a Floyd fan?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

HAHAHA! You are talking about Floyd like he actually throws combos... 1 punch at a time Floyd...

Give me a break dude. You are getting demolished by everyone that posts in this thread.

Give it up. Roy was better than Floyd. I know that kills you.

Obviously you have only watched Floyd since about 2007 and never watched him throw combos vs guys at 130 and 135 and 140,,,, once Floyd's athletic explosiveness declined, he switched to a more measured attack, much like Hopkins did,, they fell back on good footwork, defense and jabs to control fights something Roy couldn't do
Much like how when Michael Jordan got older, he rarely dunked as much and relied on his fade away jumper more and more,,, and guys like Dominique Wilkins and Vince carter are done was they lose the spring in their step...