Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[travestyny]

This is a what Jeffries said in detail.


“I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my own heart that all the old-time dash was there, but when I started to execute, the speed and the youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible… I guess it’s all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as the ‘white man’s hope,’ I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment.”


Here is a man who had not fought in 6 years, was old, and had to lose 80 pounds to get into shape. Are you aware of this? Those are the primary reasons.


The actual result under those circumstances, a 15 round corner stoppage mens nothing. I doubt you have seen the majority of the fight. No heavyweight, not even Ali would have done well under his circumstances.


That is the truth and those are the facts.

And it’s also a fact that he said he could have never beat Johnson. A very wise assessment

[QueensburyRules]

And it’s also a fact that he said he could have never beat Johnson. A very wise assessment

- - Well, Johnson could never beat Marvin Hart which is why Jeff retired because neither were worth a title challenge then...yeah!!!

[travestyny]

- - Well, Johnson could never beat Marvin Hart which is why Jeff retired because neither were worth a title challenge then...yeah!!!

From what I recall that fight was a robbery.
But no matter. He didn’t have to beat Hart. He beat the tar out of Jeffries instead.

[QueensburyRules]

From what I recall that fight was a robbery.
But no matter. He didn’t have to beat Hart. He beat the tar out of Jeffries instead.

- - Only robbery was that massive blank slate in your noggin. Ref gave it to Hart because he was the only one trying to fight.

JJ was busy stinking in spite of ref warnings to fight.

[travestyny]

- - Only robbery was that massive blank slate in your noggin. Ref gave it to Hart because he was the only one trying to fight.

JJ was busy stinking in spite of ref warnings to fight.

First of all, JJ made it clear he would duck Johnson before this fight.


Secondly, here's one account that described Johnson coming out clean and Hart coming out looking like "the walls of a [slaughterhouse]"

[JAB5239]

Here is a question. Why did Hart dismiss two other refs that were offered for the fight and insisit on Greggains? And why was Greggains sole criteria for judging the fight aggression? Johnson boxed Hart's ears off, bloodied him and battered him only to lose a decision because he didn't attack but let Hart come to him. This was always the way Johnson fought and was very effective for him. Personally I think there was something more going on here, but that's just my opinion and nothing I can prove at this point.

[solidman]

Jack johnson was robbed of being champion for 10 years.

[travestyny]

Does one actually think the the word "prime" was part of 1910 Jeffries' vocabulary? Was the word 'prime' even part of the boxing lexicon back then?

The Wenatchee Daily World was owned by the Brothers Wood, Rufus and Ralph.

It was a Progressive 'Bull Moose' publication championing liberal ideals.

I still believe Jeffries may very well have said it that night, but I question the full legitimacy of that quote.

Definitely part of the lexicon in 1910, so I don't see why "prime" wouldn't be in his vocabulary. I've got quotations from Corbett, Langford, and Ketchel talking about Jefferies' "prime" in 1910.

Tacoma Times Jan. 1910

[QueensburyRules]

First of all, JJ made it clear he would duck Johnson before this fight.


Secondly, here's one account that described Johnson coming out clean and Hart coming out looking like "the walls of a [slaughterhouse]"

- - "Marvin Hart was awarded the decision over Jack Johnson in a twenty-round contest last night that went the limit, but he came far from demonstrating that he is qualified to meet Jim Jeffries. Hart was game and kept boring into the big colored man all through the fight. Johnson's much-vaunted cleverness did not count for much. While he was able to hit Hart frequently, his blows did not seem to damage the white man from Kentucky. The sympathies of the large crowd were openly with Hart, who was at the short end in the betting, and every lead he made at Johnson, whether he landed or not, was greeted with cheers. Hart managed to deal the only effective blow in the eleventh round, when he landed a right swing on Johnson's jaw that staggered the black man and nearly knocked him over. Referee Greggains stated that he gave the decision to Hart, because all through the fight Hart did all the forcing and leading. According to Greggains, if Hart had not pursued his tactics there would have been no fight, as Johnson merely contented himself with countering. Hart's face was battered to a pulp, but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them. Johnson did a great deal of uppercutting, but Hart covered up and the blows did not seem to hurt him." (Washington Post)

[travestyny]

- - "Marvin Hart was awarded the decision over Jack Johnson in a twenty-round contest last night that went the limit, but he came far from demonstrating that he is qualified to meet Jim Jeffries. Hart was game and kept boring into the big colored man all through the fight. Johnson's much-vaunted cleverness did not count for much. While he was able to hit Hart frequently, his blows did not seem to damage the white man from Kentucky. The sympathies of the large crowd were openly with Hart, who was at the short end in the betting, and every lead he made at Johnson, whether he landed or not, was greeted with cheers. Hart managed to deal the only effective blow in the eleventh round, when he landed a right swing on Johnson's jaw that staggered the black man and nearly knocked him over. Referee Greggains stated that he gave the decision to Hart, because all through the fight Hart did all the forcing and leading. According to Greggains, if Hart had not pursued his tactics there would have been no fight, as Johnson merely contented himself with countering. Hart's face was battered to a pulp, but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them. Johnson did a great deal of uppercutting, but Hart covered up and the blows did not seem to hurt him." (Washington Post)

Seems pretty strange to admit his face was battered to a pulp but the punches had no effect. They were effective enough to batter his face to a pulp. lol.

It seems to me the referee, for whatever reason, was scoring on aggression, but not effective aggression.