Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[JAB5239]

I think the 1910 Johnson beats any version of Jeffries. He may not stop him, but he would batter him. Jack was faster, stronger in the clinch and a well fed adult no longer starving before fights.

[Dr Z]

I think the 1910 Johnson beats any version of Jeffries. He may not stop him, but he would batter him. Jack was faster, stronger in the clinch and a well fed adult no longer starving before fights.

You mean the guy out boxed by O'brien over 6 rounds, floored by Ketchel and told the press that he was still buzzed ( as the press reported this on thier own ) after the fight, and had a lucky draw vs. Journeyman Jim Johnson where 1 judge voted Jim the winner and the other two knew where the bread was butted and chose draw. Johsnon was nearly Ko'd in the 10th and final round. That guy? He showed this vs two super middles and a jouneyman. All this happened from 1909-1913.

We are all entitled to our own opinions but nothing as far as ring results from 1899-1905, or performances vs. 4 common opponents where Jeffries did noticeably better, or Jonhson sometimes losing to others or drawing to 2nd raters suggest that he would beat a prime James Jeffries.

[travestyny]

This is a credible quote from a new paper.

So is this one....
The Wenatchee daily world., July 07, 1910

"I never could have hit that fellow in my prime. He is the devil. I never could have reached him in a thousand years."

[travestyny]

You mean the guy out boxed by O'brien over 6 rounds, floored by Ketchel and told the press that he was still buzzed ( as the press reported this on thier own ) after the fight, and had a lucky draw vs. Journeyman Jim Johnson where 1 judge voted Jim the winner and the other two knew where the bread was butted and chose draw. Johsnon was nearly Ko'd in the 10th and final round. That guy? He showed this vs two super middles and a jouneyman. All this happened from 1909-1913.

We are all entitled to our own opinions but nothing as far as ring results from 1899-1905, or performances vs. 4 common opponents where Jeffries did noticeably better, or Jonhson sometimes losing to others or drawing to 2nd raters suggest that he would beat a prime James Jeffries.

It's too bad for you that Jeffries admit he couldn't have beaten Johnson even in his prime. Move along now.

[QueensburyRules]

I think the 1910 Johnson beats any version of Jeffries. He may not stop him, but he would batter him. Jack was faster, stronger in the clinch and a well fed adult no longer starving before fights.

- - Little Tommy Burns really took it to him so badly he spent a large spell Hugging Tommy because he loved him so much he didn't really want to fight Tommy but rather stink his way to a title...

[Dr Z]

So is this one....
The Wenatchee daily world., July 07, 1910

"I never could have hit that fellow in my prime. He is the devil. I never could have reached him in a thousand years."

This is a what Jeffries said in detail.


“I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my own heart that all the old-time dash was there, but when I started to execute, the speed and the youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible… I guess it’s all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as the ‘white man’s hope,’ I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment.”


Here is a man who had not fought in 6 years, was old, and had to lose 80 pounds to get into shape. Are you aware of this? Those are the primary reasons.


The actual result under those circumstances, a 15 round corner stoppage mens nothing. I doubt you have seen the majority of the fight. No heavyweight, not even Ali would have done well under his circumstances.

[travestyny]

This is a what Jeffries said in detail.


“I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my own heart that all the old-time dash was there, but when I started to execute, the speed and the youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible… I guess it’s all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as the ‘white man’s hope,’ I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment.”


Here is a man who had not fought in 6 years, was old, and had to lose 80 pounds to get into shape. Are you aware of this? Those are the primary reasons.


The actual result under those circumstances, a 15 round corner stoppage mens nothing. I doubt you have seen the majority of the fight. No heavyweight, not even Ali would have done well under his circumstances.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Little Tommy Burns really took it to him so badly he spent a large spell Hugging Tommy because he loved him so much he didn't really want to fight Tommy but rather stink his way to a title...

Johnson was always a grabber. But back then all fighters were grabbers. Black and white.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is a what Jeffries said in detail.


“I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my own heart that all the old-time dash was there, but when I started to execute, the speed and the youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible… I guess it’s all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as the ‘white man’s hope,’ I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment.”


Here is a man who had not fought in 6 years, was old, and had to lose 80 pounds to get into shape. Are you aware of this? Those are the primary reasons.


The actual result under those circumstances, a 15 round corner stoppage mens nothing. I doubt you have seen the majority of the fight. No heavyweight, not even Ali would have done well under his circumstances.

Does one actually think the the word "prime" was part of 1910 Jeffries' vocabulary? Was the word 'prime' even part of the boxing lexicon back then?

The Wenatchee Daily World was owned by the Brothers Wood, Rufus and Ralph.

It was a Progressive 'Bull Moose' publication championing liberal ideals.

I still believe Jeffries may very well have said it that night, but I question the full legitimacy of that quote.

[Dr Z]

This is a what Jeffries said in detail.


“I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my own heart that all the old-time dash was there, but when I started to execute, the speed and the youthful steam were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible… I guess it’s all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as the ‘white man’s hope,’ I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment.”


Here is a man who had not fought in 6 years, was old, and had to lose 80 pounds to get into shape. Are you aware of this? Those are the primary reasons.


The actual result under those circumstances, a 15 round corner stoppage mens nothing. I doubt you have seen the majority of the fight. No heavyweight, not even Ali would have done well under his circumstances.

That is the truth and those are the facts.