Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[kafkod]

Then you have no respect for yourself as a fan... Small wonder! Delusional? thinking that only that which is state sanctioned has meaning is not delusional? You are a ful! Look at Japanese Arts, the only hand the very strong government has in them is declaring a criteria for being a classical art. No government existed for most of the time these combat arts were used and handed down, they remain one of the few examples of combat proven systems on a battle field, but to fuls like you... they are "magical and delusional" right?

The original authority in Western boxing was a set of rules designed to eliminate duels that killed people. James Figg was a swordsman. Again... How were champions determined? I would ask the same of Marg: How were Greek champs determined? through a government agency? The first parasites were the promoters... They were tolerated for obvious reasons... Then eventually came the self serving agencies that became middle men and brain washed fuls like you into believing champs were made and determined due to agencies and not to beating the best. And the proof is in the pudding: what Alphabet champ has gotten there by beating the best? Only the one held by the champion who beat the best to become the best, the rest are a joke... sound familiar? Like the lineal maybe?

You're not getting the point I'm making. I'm not saying that nothing matters unless it is state sanctioned. As I said, you were the one who brought government authority into the conversation, not me. All I'm saying is that there is no such thing as a lineal title, and that therefor, lineal championship claims are always going to be subjective, based on opinions, not facts.

[kafkod]

Re earlier post: Who are these "powers to be"?

They are all self created sanctioning bodies with no actual authority and therfore as delusional as the fan created lineal title.

This post: W. Klitschko became lineal champion when he was all we had to turn to.

Think Klitschko is questionable? How about Schmeling being declared champion sitting on his stool after a low blow claim.

The lineal title has many wa-rts. But as I have said it is all we got, lest we want to be manipulated by the sanctioning bodies.

Those "powers to be" are corrupt with no authority.

You and many others in boxing have fallen for the hierarchical "authority" of media and sanctioning bodies, who are all for-profit agents, with self-serving agendas.

You can join us in our delusional attempt to find a lineal champion or you can be a sanctioning bodies bit-ch, as many have chosen to be.

Not I!

Wlad became lineal champion when he beat Ruslan Chagaev, who was the thirs ranked contender after Wlad and Vits. Certain exceptions have been made when the number one and two can't fight, and if the number three is available to fight the number one contender for the vacant lineal championship, establishing a new lineage. Wlad and Vits declared they would never fight leaving the door open for the next highest rank contender to fight Wlad. It's not that hard to follow or understand, I don't know how he doesn't get it.

You guys are hilarious! So I'm a sanctioning bodies bitch, yeah?

So whose ratings are you parroting there, JAB?

Who's doing your thinking for you?

Whose bitch are you?

[JAB5239]

That's 3 times I've asked you to explain to me how Wlad became the lineal champion via man-who-beat-the-man lineage, and you keep ducking the question. The truth is that Wlad didn't become lineal champ via lineage and he certainly didn't become lineal champ by winning a lineal title fight. That would be impossible because, like I keep telling you, there is no such thing as a lineal title.

What happened was that history buffs at forum and ratings sites like TBRB decided that they needed somebody to call, "the lineal champion" and Wlad was the best candidate. Fair enough. But please stop pretending there was anything more to it than that.

"but how about when the alphabets demanded Lewis fight Ruiz? a scrub, and Lewis chose to fight whom the people wanted: Grant... That is the nature of the Lineal! Whether it was for the Lineal, or not... It is an example of how fans voices and declaring whom is the best matters... And Grant was a stronger opponent than Ruiz, to anyone who understands boxing"

That had nothing to do with any lineal title. Grant was the money fight for Lewis at that time, so he fought him.

Yet there is. And it's less complicated that the ABC orgs who can be bought and or paid off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineal_championship

[JAB5239]

You guys are hilarious! So I'm a sanctioning bodies bitch, yeah?

So whose ratings are you parroting there, JAB?

Who's doing your thinking for you?

Whose bitch are you?

Why the insults? I follow the Transnational boxing rankings. All volunteers and widely respected in the boxing community with a singular purpose of reforming boxing. With no ties to any ABC orgs or promoters i believe they're the most fair and impartial when it comes to ranking fighters both historically and today.

[kafkod]

Yet there is. And it's less complicated that the ABC orgs who can be bought and or paid off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineal_championship

Less complicated?

Have you read that page you linked to?

[Willie Pep 229]

You guys are hilarious! So I'm a sanctioning bodies bitch, yeah?

So whose ratings are you parroting there, JAB?

Who's doing your thinking for you?

Whose bitch are you?

I'm not parroting anyone's ratings.

Just observation of that around me.

It was Lewis to Klitschko to Fury to Usyk.

That is the reality around you, the one you call on the 'authorites' to deny exists.

History shows us that our lineal opinion will move forward in time, yours will be lost in a sea of belt claimants.

"What is history, but lies agreed upon." Napoleon

[kafkod]

Why the insults? I follow the Transnational boxing rankings. All volunteers and widely respected in the boxing community with a singular purpose of reforming boxing. With no ties to any ABC orgs or promoters i believe they're the most fair and impartial when it comes to ranking fighters both historically and today.

They publish rankings based on the results of fights for the 4 universally recognised world title belts. The same title belts you claim not to recognise!

Why the insults, Pep called me a sanctioning bodies bitch for accepting their rankings. Tit for tat, all banter, no bad feeling intended.

[IronDanHamza]

In 2013, Mayweather and Guererro fought for the "vacant Lineage" at Welterweight.

Does that make sense to have that fight for the "vacant lineage"? Curious on people's opinions.

[Willie Pep 229]

They publish rankings based on the results of fights for the 4 universally recognised world title belts. The same title belts you claim not to recognise!

Why the insults, Pep called me a sanctioning bodies bitch for accepting their rankings. Tit for tat, all banter, no bad feeling intended.

I'm sorry. That is a generic insult I use often when we have this debate.

I am sorry for not realizing that you wouldn't understand my hyperbole.

I shall in future refrain. I hope.

[famicommander]

In 2013, Mayweather and Guererro fought for the "vacant Lineage" at Welterweight.

Does that make sense to have that fight for the "vacant lineage"? Curious on people's opinions.

The Ring crowned a champion in that fight, but the TBRB didn't recognize Ghost v Mayweather as a title fight; they had Pac, Bradley, and JMM ranked ahead of Guerrero. For them the welterweight title remained vacant until Mayweather beat Pacquiao. Then Floyd retired and they crowned a new champion when Pac beat Bradley in 2016, which is where Pacquiao's sometimes-disputed claim as a five division lineal champion comes from. Then Pac retired and it remained vacant until Crawford beat Spence.

For me, the TBRB champion is the world champion. I know not everyone agrees and they don't hand out a fancy belt, but they seem to have no conflicts of interest and the most reliable rankings.