Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[JAB5239]

Shall I keep going with the joke that is the ABC orgs? Lol, why not?

https://www.tntsports.co.uk/boxing/w...come=eurosport

[Willie Pep 229]

I want to extrapolate on my AJ-Usyk example above.

Joshua earned a shot at the lineal title by collecting two major belts and one minor belt. He did dominate the division.

That earned him a right at Fury's lineal title, but Fury has a pussy streak and what should have been that month's 'fight of the century' didn't happen.

AJ then lost to Ruiz which put a damper on AJ's #1 status.

AJ avenged the loss, but Fury-Joshua fight lost some of its luster.

So AJ sought to add a fourth belt to his title with Usyk and the WBC. This would have re-established him as the #1 contender.

A convincing win over Usyk would have removed the stigma of the Ruiz loss and reopened the door for a Fury-Joshua fight.

But Usyk beat Joshua twice and took all four belts with him and with it the right to fight Fury.

See, the SB belts are an excellent way to weed out the pretenders and ID the real contenders.

But winning a SB champion never makes you a champion. Just a worthy opponent.

[kafkod]

I want to extrapolate on my AJ-Usyk example above.

Joshua earned a shot at the lineal title by collecting two major belts and one minor belt. He did dominate the division.

That earned him a right at Fury's lineal title, but Fury has a pussy streak and what should have been that month's 'fight of the century' didn't happen.

AJ then lost to Ruiz which put a damper on AJ's #1 status.

AJ avenged the loss, but Fury-Joshua fight lost some of its luster.

So AJ sought to add a fourth belt to his title with Usyk and the WBC. This would have re-established him as the #1 contender.

A convincing win over Usyk would have removed the stigma of the Ruiz loss and reopened the door for a Fury-Joshua fight.

But Usyk beat Joshua twice and took all four belts with him and with it the right to fight Fury.

See, the SB belts are an excellent way to weed out the pretenders and ID the real contenders.

But winning a SB champion never makes you a champion. Just a worthy opponent.

It's a shame AJ never joined the long and illustrious list of top contenders who had a shot at Fury's lineal title: Sefer Seferi, Francesco Pianetta, Deontay Wilder x3, Tom Schwarz, Otto Wallin, Dillian Whyte, Derek Chisora, Francis Ngannou.

I'm not going to add Usyk's name to that list, because Usyk said that the lineal title was nothing but Tyson's bull****, and meant nothing to him. In Lineal Loony Land, refusing to recognise the existence of the lineal title is the equivalent of refusing to pay sanctioning fees for a real title fight, and the same principles should apply: The title holder loses his title if he loses the fight, but the opponent cannot win it, so the title becomes vacant and the interim, or regular champion, is upgraded to full championship status. As there was no interim or regular lineal champion, the only logical thing to do was to upgrade Usuk to lineal champion, whether he likes it or not.

So Fury's record in recognised lineal title fights is a very impressive 10 - 0 - 1.

[QueensburyRules]

It's a shame AJ never joined the long and illustrious list of top contenders who had a shot at Fury's lineal title: Sefer Seferi, Francesco Pianetta, Deontay Wilder x3, Tom Schwarz, Otto Wallin, Dillian Whyte, Derek Chisora, Francis Ngannou.

I'm not going to add Usyk's name to that list, because Usyk said that the lineal title was nothing but Tyson's bull****, and meant nothing to him. In Lineal Loony Land, refusing to recognise the existence of the lineal title is the equivalent of refusing to pay sanctioning fees for a real title fight, and the same principles should apply: The title holder loses his title if he loses the fight, but the opponent cannot win it, so the title becomes vacant and the interim, or regular champion, is upgraded to full championship status. As there was no interim or regular lineal champion, the only logical thing to do was to upgrade Usuk to lineal champion, whether he likes it or not.

So Fury's record in recognised lineal title fights is a very impressive 10 - 0 - 1.

- - Blubber had been popped for peds before the Wlad match that was hushed up at the time.

The Ring Policy that most fans think as synonymous has a clear policy of stripping the Ring Title if the Champion has a positive drug test.

Tinkerbell published stupendously detailed Laws for Lineal Titles that you can purchase on line...jus sayin'....

[billeau2]

Yes, Captain Obvious, that is exactly why I said that the idea of a vacant lineal title is absurd!

The lineage is not a title, it is a list of the names of those fighters who have been designated as "the lineal champion"

There is no such thing as a lineal title.

So because something is well educated and obvious it does not exist? those ****** pills are kickin in real good!

[billeau2]

I am absolutely not thinking of the lineal title as an object. I have said, numerous times during this discussion that there is no such thing a a lineal title.

I never heard anything about the Klitschko brothers, or anybody else, being invited to take part in a tournament to establish a new lineal champion. Do you have any evidence for that?

Lol what a silly argument... So because you said there is no such thing what again?

[billeau2]

Do you have any evidence for that?

Yeah he says it is so!!! Queenie logic ya know?

[billeau2]

Napoleon Bonaparte ~ "History is lies agreed upon"

Kafkod- "The lineal does not exist because I say so."

[JAB5239]

So because something is well educated and obvious it does not exist? those ****** pills are kickin in real good!

Why don't we just say screw the term lineal title, and stick with lineal champion? I don't see how that can be argued. It's the man who beat the man, hence the lineal champion.

[billeau2]

Why don't we just say screw the term lineal title, and stick with lineal champion? I don't see how that can be argued. It's the man who beat the man, hence the lineal champion.

Yes. The semantics are irrelevant. Primarily because of how the term applies, at least historically. Thai boxing among other combative sports hybrids tells us the same story: what makes it so compelling is how while the dynamics are the same, the weight class is different. It shows us the same historical structure with a unique twist because the Thai "champion Lineal champ, is the champ at middle weight. Yet everything else is the same as the lineal mechanism.

The way it sticks is a structure that repeats historically because it is such a part of human nature. When someone claims to be the biggest, baddest, toughest in the land, a challenger will emerge. Everyone recognizes that if the challenger wins, he becomes the biggest, baddest, toughest, in the land!

Another historical tidbit. When Figg was promoting boxing, the original intent was to give young aggressive men a way to settle disputes physically with no death, or permanent disfigurements. Gradually though, as Marg points out so well, regarding the whole ancient notion of fighting for glory and how it split off of military and ritual fighting for that which was greater than us ( a transcendent God), boxing became a way to attain personal currency. Exhibitions originally allowed men to challenge boxers on a stage. This was done in Brazil as well. Brazil has a robust history of combatives, mostly wrestling styles, including English wrestling styles and eventually Japanese imports... In Brazil matches could be "work (staged)," or a challenge match. The prize in all cases was bragging rights.

Boxing just was an outgrowth of this activity allowing fighters to come from farther places. And the lineal was a way for a line of the best to develop and proudly declare itself as a pedigree.