Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[billeau2]

Ok, so prove it by using the lineal to explain how and why Wlad Klitschko became lineal champion,

Why would that matter? Why would that imply more or less data and understanding about the lineal? I don't wish to play ****** games to win ****** prizes... The question would be, who contested Vlad as the champion? Aside from the other authorative alphabet soups? Did anyone need the lineal? Aside from third party groups crowning some mando? And these mandatories, most of whom were crap... Are the reason why Lewis fought much stronger competition because unlike Vlad, Lewis listened to the fans and fought whom the fans considered the best...

You just do not respect how this works... You and Marg claim the lineal prevents fighting the best which is nonsense (and I think the world of Marg but...) but how about when the alphabets demanded Lewis fight Ruiz? a scrub, and Lewis chose to fight whom the people wanted: Grant... That is the nature of the Lineal! Whether it was for the Lineal, or not... It is an example of how fans voices and declaring whom is the best matters... And Grant was a stronger opponent than Ruiz, to anyone who understands boxing.

[billeau2]

I don't see it as an affront, I see it as delusional magical thinking, fan cliques shouting into echo chambers online, thinking that "the world" or "the powers that be" are listening to them.

Then you have no respect for yourself as a fan... Small wonder! Delusional? thinking that only that which is state sanctioned has meaning is not delusional? You are a ful! Look at Japanese Arts, the only hand the very strong government has in them is declaring a criteria for being a classical art. No government existed for most of the time these combat arts were used and handed down, they remain one of the few examples of combat proven systems on a battle field, but to fuls like you... they are "magical and delusional" right?

The original authority in Western boxing was a set of rules designed to eliminate duels that killed people. James Figg was a swordsman. Again... How were champions determined? I would ask the same of Marg: How were Greek champs determined? through a government agency? The first parasites were the promoters... They were tolerated for obvious reasons... Then eventually came the self serving agencies that became middle men and brain washed fuls like you into believing champs were made and determined due to agencies and not to beating the best. And the proof is in the pudding: what Alphabet champ has gotten there by beating the best? Only the one held by the champion who beat the best to become the best, the rest are a joke... sound familiar? Like the lineal maybe?

[billeau2]

- - Poor Billy. Ginsberg awaits thee forever more, forever more...

You are nothing if not consistent!. Knowing what side of an issue you will favor is not brain science. Alas it is the gin talking... Poor ginny...

[billeau2]

ah ha ha queeny loves dishing it out!!!
I reckon it is because of all those drugs he used to hand out at the infirmary he couldn't resist taking a few uppers and downers and all the way rounders for himself and now he struggles to get on with his peers. Shine on you crazy diamond queeny. I like you! You are funny.

No sir Queenie is a liquid man all the way! He will piss on your shoes if you catch him in the middle of a splurge!

[billeau2]

What happens if you don't register with the state? Does that make one less of a martial artist? Or do you have to register just to train? Just a money grab in my opinion.

Well... jersey tried it and luckily for martial artists everywhere they were sent packing. Bur ask me instead What "WOULD" happen if Jersey had been succesful. Our kids, all would be on this forum, years later after other blue states started the same money grab... and Kafkod junior would be telling Billy Boy junior, "Belts are magical and illusions! The State license that grants martial arts teachers authority to teach is the only real power and authority to be had here! A punch is only as real as the state says it is! Billy Boy would then say "Ok let me punch you in the face since my dad was a martial artist and not sanctioned.... It should just dissapear since it has no real power!

Of course Queenie junior would be hitting the sauce...

[billeau2]

Yup!

The biggest issue with lineal is the quality of historian who first presented the concept. Lineal is just one of many examples of when Nat Fleischer did not know the answer he simply made **** up. If you take the concept through history, **** man you've probably read my threads on that. You can see a traditional belt. You get a sense of what Nat meant, but when Nat himself or the mag he left behind justified their stance of who the champion was and why, that's where the it's just made up nonsense that doesn't actually fit the reality of the strongest claim era or its traditions.



Here we have Pep be a case in point for how Ring propaganda controlled the narrative for generations. Some of my favorite posters thumbed this post too. All I got out of it is even recognizing the flaws in the nonsense that is lineal Pep would rather live in that delusion than face than reality Tysonâ Fury's time as champion is a single strapper and will be held in that regard.

Lineal is bull**** that is of course a popularity contest and like you point out often held by the ***** left in the cold. It's also some real boxing nerd fandom bull****.

20 years from now not only will Joshua be seen as a champion but his having 3/4 the belts will always play in his favor and make for a strong argument he was the man post Wlad.

You know I think the world of you... But let me ask you three questions:

1. What state authority determined who the Greek champions were.. Starting with Apollo....
2. Why should the understanding that the champion is the one who beats the best come under Nat Fleitcher, or anyone's singular purveyance?
3. How much should any outside interest be allowed to tell fans who the champ is rather than the mechanism of action: So for example, in college sports there is no way the best teams can always meet for deciding an outcome so, in that case we accept the intrusion of an outside force making a decision in rankings... But in Boxing? where it is entirely possible for the best fighters to fight each other, why should we need more than one organization to moniter who has done so? What other reason could there be that is constructive for the sport, for any more alphabet soup? or... for that matter, organized crime, etc, what? to pay the judges off?

[Willie Pep 229]

Ok, so prove it by using the lineal to explain how and why Wlad Klitschko became lineal champion,

Re earlier post: Who are these "powers to be"?

They are all self created sanctioning bodies with no actual authority and therfore as delusional as the fan created lineal title.

This post: W. Klitschko became lineal champion when he was all we had to turn to.

Think Klitschko is questionable? How about Schmeling being declared champion sitting on his stool after a low blow claim.

The lineal title has many wa-rts. But as I have said it is all we got, lest we want to be manipulated by the sanctioning bodies.

Those "powers to be" are corrupt with no authority.

You and many others in boxing have fallen for the hierarchical "authority" of media and sanctioning bodies, who are all for-profit agents, with self-serving agendas.

You can join us in our delusional attempt to find a lineal champion or you can be a sanctioning bodies bit-ch, as many have chosen to be.

Not I!

[billeau2]

Re earlier post: Who are these "powers to be"?

They are all self created sanctioning bodies with no actual authority and therfore as delusional as the fan created lineal title.

This post: W. Klitschko became lineal champion when he was all we had to turn to.

Think Klitschko is questionable? How about Schmeling being declared champion sitting on his stool after a low blow claim.

The lineal title has many wa-rts. But as I have said it is all we got, lest we want to be manipulated by the sanctioning bodies.

Those "powers to be" are corrupt with no authority.

You and many others in boxing have fallen for the hierarchical "authority" of media and sanctioning bodies, who are all for-profit agents, with self-serving agendas.

You can join us in our delusional attempt to find a lineal champion or you can be a sanctioning bodies bit-ch, as many have chosen to be.

Not I!

If some would at least get the gist of it, as you describe in the post ... But no. Many people never question where the authority to act comes from. None are immune! Some of the finest intellectual minds during the second world war were lured by Hitler to believe that state sponsored academic and artistic communities were the way to go. Martin Heidegger among them... Never did it occur to them that this relationship could cause a problem. One would think even a simpleton would understand the different motivations regarding academic process and Nationalism was cause for concern... Even before Hitler, Hegel's historico-teolilogical Nationalism (The Young Hegalians) was so popular that his classes were standing room only, while Arthur Schopenhauer, a true philosopher could not find even a handful of students.

[JAB5239]

Re earlier post: Who are these "powers to be"?

They are all self created sanctioning bodies with no actual authority and therfore as delusional as the fan created lineal title.

This post: W. Klitschko became lineal champion when he was all we had to turn to.

Think Klitschko is questionable? How about Schmeling being declared champion sitting on his stool after a low blow claim.

The lineal title has many wa-rts. But as I have said it is all we got, lest we want to be manipulated by the sanctioning bodies.

Those "powers to be" are corrupt with no authority.

You and many others in boxing have fallen for the hierarchical "authority" of media and sanctioning bodies, who are all for-profit agents, with self-serving agendas.

You can join us in our delusional attempt to find a lineal champion or you can be a sanctioning bodies bit-ch, as many have chosen to be.

Not I!

Wlad became lineal champion when he beat Ruslan Chagaev, who was the thirs ranked contender after Wlad and Vits. Certain exceptions have been made when the number one and two can't fight, and if the number three is available to fight the number one contender for the vacant lineal championship, establishing a new lineage. Wlad and Vits declared they would never fight leaving the door open for the next highest rank contender to fight Wlad. It's not that hard to follow or understand, I don't know how he doesn't get it.

[kafkod]

Why would that matter? Why would that imply more or less data and understanding about the lineal? I don't wish to play ****** games to win ****** prizes... The question would
be, who contested Vlad as the champion? Aside from the other authorative alphabet soups? Did anyone need the lineal? Aside from third party groups crowning some mando? And these mandatories, most of whom were crap... Are the reason why Lewis fought much stronger competition because unlike Vlad, Lewis listened to the fans and fought whom the fans considered the best...

You just do not respect how this works... You and Marg claim the lineal prevents fighting the best which is nonsense (and I think the world of Marg but...) but how about when the alphabets demanded Lewis fight Ruiz? a scrub, and Lewis chose to fight whom the people wanted: Grant... That is the nature of the Lineal! Whether it was for the Lineal, or not... It is an example of how fans voices and declaring whom is the best matters... And Grant was a stronger opponent than Ruiz, to anyone who understands boxing.

That's 3 times I've asked you to explain to me how Wlad became the lineal champion via man-who-beat-the-man lineage, and you keep ducking the question. The truth is that Wlad didn't become lineal champ via lineage and he certainly didn't become lineal champ by winning a lineal title fight. That would be impossible because, like I keep telling you, there is no such thing as a lineal title.

What happened was that history buffs at forum and ratings sites like TBRB decided that they needed somebody to call, "the lineal champion" and Wlad was the best candidate. Fair enough. But please stop pretending there was anything more to it than that.

"but how about when the alphabets demanded Lewis fight Ruiz? a scrub, and Lewis chose to fight whom the people wanted: Grant... That is the nature of the Lineal! Whether it was for the Lineal, or not... It is an example of how fans voices and declaring whom is the best matters... And Grant was a stronger opponent than Ruiz, to anyone who understands boxing"

That had nothing to do with any lineal title. Grant was the money fight for Lewis at that time, so he fought him.