Harry Greb, the true Goat

[Dr. Z]

As everyone now knows Johnson signed to fight Langford in Australia and posted a bond for the fight the promoter called the fight off.
Langford began fighting heavyweights in1905.

Everyone knows in England Sam Langford signed to fight Jack Johnson in 1908. It was Johnson who backed out of that fight!

[Ivich]

Oh I agree that Holman Willams and Charley Burley were and victims of the color line, by Sugar Ray Robinson. As was Sam Langford, Sam McVey and Joe Jeannette by Jack Johnson. Harry Wills was a victim too, that blame falls on Dempsey.

In Sam Langfords case I just don't see any Middleweights who were white using the color line against him. Heavyweight is a different story.

Williams and Burley were never ranked as Middleweights . when Robinson was.

Zale ,Graziano ,and Cerdan were the champions when," The Row "were ranked,NOT Robinson.

After 1942 no members of Murderers Row were ranked at welterweight and in that year only Cocoa Kid.
Holman Williams retired in1948 .Charley Burley in1950.Robinson did not become a ranked middle until the end of 1949,by which time ,none of the Row were ranked.


This has been explained to you several times, by me and other posters ,but you are just too ****** to grasp it!

[Ivich]

Everyone knows in England Sam Langford signed to fight Jack Johnson in 1908. It was Johnson who backed out of that fight!

Everyone knows Johnson signed to fight Langford in the Autumn of 1908 the fight to take place in 1909 at the NSC Johnson's purse was to have been £6000 This was BEFORE Johnson won the title in December 1908.
After he became champion Johnson declared his price for a title defence was $30,000.The same amount as Burns had received for defending against him ,the NSC refused to pay him anywhere near that.
Johnson's argument was that as Worlds Champion he was entitled to charge more for his services,that a title defence was worth more than a fight between two challengers.

[QueensburyRules]

Everyone knows Johnson signed to fight Langford in the Autumn of 1908 the fight to take place in 1909 at the NSC Johnson's purse was to have been £6000 This was BEFORE Johnson won the title in December 1908.
After he became champion Johnson declared his price for a title defence was $30,000.The same amount as Burns had received for defending against him ,the NSC refused to pay him anywhere near that.
Johnson's argument was that as Worlds Champion he was entitled to charge more for his services,that a title defence was worth more than a fight between two challengers.

- - The Deal was IF JJ beat Tommy that the $$$ NSC gave JJ to get him to Oz, that was the legally binding guarantee that JJ next fight and 1st Defense would be in England vs Sam…duh…

[them_apples]

Oh I agree that Holman Willams and Charley Burley were and victims of the color line, by Sugar Ray Robinson. As was Sam Langford, Sam McVey and Joe Jeannette by Jack Johnson. Harry Wills was a victim too, that blame falls on Dempsey.

In Sam Langfords case I just don't see any Middleweights who were white using the color line against him. Heavyweight is a different story.

Because Dempsey was such a star attraction they really protected him. He blatantly ducked fighters. He himself wasn’t scared but its clear the business end was shielding him

[Ivich]

- - The Deal was IF JJ beat Tommy that the $$$ NSC gave JJ to get him to Oz, that was the legally binding guarantee that JJ next fight and 1st Defense would be in England vs Sam…duh…

Nope.The deal was, win or lose Johnson would return and fight Langford for £6000.

Whether you agree with Johnson or not,he felt, as champion he deserved a champions purse to defend his title and £6000 was not such a purse .

[Dr. Z]

Everyone knows Johnson signed to fight Langford in the Autumn of 1908 the fight to take place in 1909 at the NSC Johnson's purse was to have been £6000 This was BEFORE Johnson won the title in December 1908.
After he became champion Johnson declared his price for a title defence was $30,000.The same amount as Burns had received for defending against him ,the NSC refused to pay him anywhere near that.
Johnson's argument was that as Worlds Champion he was entitled to charge more for his services,that a title defence was worth more than a fight between two challengers.

Johnson was not world champion when he signed the contract to fight Langford.

[JAB5239]

Oh I agree that Holman Willams and Charley Burley were and victims of the color line, by Sugar Ray Robinson. As was Sam Langford, Sam McVey and Joe Jeannette by Jack Johnson. Harry Wills was a victim too, that blame falls on Dempsey.

In Sam Langfords case I just don't see any Middleweights who were white using the color line against him. Heavyweight is a different story.

Papke. Klaus, McCoy and Chip never offered him a shot during that time frame. I think that tell us clearly all we need to know. White fighters, especially champions weren't trying to get in the ring with Langford because they knew they stood little chance of winning

Moha, Dillon, Levinski and Carpentier never offered a shot either. Can you not see a pattern here?

[Dr. Z]

Papke. Klaus, McCoy and Chip never offered him a shot during that time frame. I think that tell us clearly all we need to know. White fighters, especially champions weren't trying to get in the ring with Langford because they knew they stood little chance of winning

Moha, Dillon, Levinski and Carpentier never offered a shot either. Can you not see a pattern here?

At the time, Langford fought at heavyweight.

[Ivich]

Johnson was not world champion when he signed the contract to fight Langford.

That is exactly right.Once champion he decided he was worth more than £6000 for a title defence!