Harry Greb, the true Goat

[Ivich]

You are missing the point here my friend. Sam was fighting at heavyweight yes, but not solely heavyweight. In 1910 the Ketchel exhibition was to try and garner a middleweight title shot. There are plenty of fights between 1905 and 1913 where Sam weighed under either middle or lightheavyweight. It was until 1913 that his weight actually rose to that of a heavyweight. Had he not been ducked we may have never seen him stay at heavyweight......who knows?

I know he was fighting at three different weights whilst still around middleweight,all I said was he began fighting heavyweights in1905.

[Ivich]

It is so like you to omit facts such as Langford had a signed contract to fight Johnson In England.

It is so like you to not list when the fight was offered to Johnson by date and when the promoter eventually closed it out and saved his money months later. Johnson had little interest in fighting the opponents offered by HD McIntosh as champion , you Dolt. He was not going to risk his cash cow championship vs. Langford, McVey, or Jeannette! Otherwise we would have seen that fight. Australia and England offer these fights. France did too. In all cases Johnson balked sometimes fighting second rate guys for less.

Your head like you say is " pig sick "

I posted on here some time ago when Johnson first signed to fight Langford,and the fact that his purse win or lose was to be $5000 plus a third interest of the Bioscope revenue.
Johnson signed to fight Langford at the NSC the fight to take place on the 22nd of February.1909

Johnson signed to fight Burns on the18th of September and that fight happened on the 26th of December 1908.

Johnson signed to defend against both McVey and Langford for H McIntosh his purses were to amount to $45,000,plus 4 round trip tickets plus $1000 training expenses,plus a percentage of the film rights.

When Johnson jumped bail Australian public opinion and the church turned against him and McIntosh pulled the fights and made a public statement explaining why, I've posted this several times.

No facts omitted by me, all dates, purses,and venues supplied!
Despite repeated requests for verified offers of $30,000 that Johnson refused ,giving the date and venue these offers were connected to, YOU HAVE NEVER PRODUCED A SINGLE ONE.

ps "pig sick," in the UK idiom simply means you are sick of something ,in this case I am sick of your nonstop lying ,and hate campaigns,and it's refreshing to see others are catching on to your pathetic hate agendas.


NOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN CHASTISED YET AGAIN SILLY BOLLOCKS. CRAWL AWAY BACK TO YOUR HOLE!

[QueensburyRules]

Nope.The deal was, win or lose Johnson would return and fight Langford for £6000.

Whether you agree with Johnson or not,he felt, as champion he deserved a champions purse to defend his title and £6000 was not such a purse .

- - He reneged after the English treated him royally beyond his modest status. Made no attempt to return for to renegotiate the terms.

[Ivich]

- - He reneged after the English treated him royally beyond his modest status. Made no attempt to return for to renegotiate the terms.

Yes he reneged on the deal.Once champion he declared his price was now $30,000 the same as Burns had received for defending against him.$30,000 is rather different to the *****rdly $ 5000 the NSC was prepared to offer with the fighters to pay their own expenses.Johnson went into print in the London newspapers saying his price for a title defence was $30,000,he heard no more from the NSC.Peggy Bettinson the Secretary and Top Dog had attempted one of his well known cut price jobs on Johnson and it backfired on him.
Johnson was treated royally by the British public ,but not by the NSC, he wasn't even in the room when his manager Sam Fitzpatrick agreed terms for the Langford fight,being made to stand in the corridor.Fitzpatrick brought the contract out for him to sign.

Johnson,when he returned to the UK was earning $2,500 a week in vaudeville why would he fight Langford for $5000. Johnson agreed to defend against Billy Wells in the UK,but the Home Office vetoed the fight.
All this info is readily available.I wonder why you haven't researched it?

[them_apples]

Yes he reneged on the deal.Once champion he declared his price was now $30,000 the same as Burns had received for defending against him.$30,000 is rather different to the *****rdly $ 5000 the NSC was prepared to offer with the fighters to pay their own expenses.Johnson went into print in the London newspapers saying his price for a title defence was $30,000,he heard no more from the NSC.Peggy Bettinson the Secretary and Top Dog had attempted one of his well known cut price jobs on Johnson and it backfired on him.
Johnson was treated royally by the British public ,but not by the NSC, he wasn't even in the room when his manager Sam Fitzpatrick agreed terms for the Langford fight,being made to stand in the corridor.Fitzpatrick brought the contract out for him to sign.

Johnson,when he returned to the UK was earning $2,500 a week in vaudeville why would he fight Langford for $5000. Johnson agreed to defend against Billy Wells in the UK,but the Home Office vetoed the fight.
All this info is readily available.I wonder why you haven't researched it?

damn, when you were the champ boxing always paid well. In todays money thats good cheddar.

in the Greb book, in todays money during Grebs peak years he was making about 700,000-900,000 a year with the amount of fighting he was doing. Dempsey of course making much more. When greb died he left about 250k to his family (todays money) which was all he had after debts but was desperately trying to make money fighting before he died. Unfortunately he was ducked.

[QueensburyRules]

Yes he reneged on the deal.Once champion he declared his price was now $30,000 the same as Burns had received for defending against him.$30,000 is rather different to the *****rdly $ 5000 the NSC was prepared to offer with the fighters to pay their own expenses.Johnson went into print in the London newspapers saying his price for a title defence was $30,000,he heard no more from the NSC.Peggy Bettinson the Secretary and Top Dog had attempted one of his well known cut price jobs on Johnson and it backfired on him.
Johnson was treated royally by the British public ,but not by the NSC, he wasn't even in the room when his manager Sam Fitzpatrick agreed terms for the Langford fight,being made to stand in the corridor.Fitzpatrick brought the contract out for him to sign.

Johnson,when he returned to the UK was earning $2,500 a week in vaudeville why would he fight Langford for $5000. Johnson agreed to defend against Billy Wells in the UK,but the Home Office vetoed the fight.
All this info is readily available.I wonder why you haven't researched it?

- - Didn’t know JJ worked in English Vaudeville.

White Face or Black Face?

[Dr. Z]

That guy would never lay a hand on me. I'd fight him anywhere for nothing just to prove it."-- Harry Greb .

"Harry was very fast on his feet and inhumanly quick with his hands. I don't think anyone could throw as many punches in a given space of time as he could. He slapped, cuffed and stabbed. No one in the world knew more fighting tricks...His whirling, flip-flop attack puzzled the punchers as well as the boxers and had them all at sea... And he was exactly the type with which Jack Dempsey had the most trouble. A fellow like Greb could keep him off balance, which is fatal for any fighter."-- Jack Kofoed .

"You know, the biggest mistake I ever made was in boxing with Dempsey in the gym. After that he wouldn't have me at any price in a regular fight."-- Harry Greb

If you combine elite hand speed, amazing durability, and near limitless enduece to throw a lot of punches that man is fought to beat. Mix in a good defense and man who won't stand still and you get a picture of Harry Greb.

You won't find any confirmed being film of Greb in the ring , but you can easily find film of his opponents beaten.


- Dr. Z

[them_apples]

If you combine elite hand speed, amazing durability, and near limitless enduece to throw a lot of punches that man is fought to beat. Mix in a good defense and man who won't stand still and you get a picture of Harry Greb.

You won't find any confirmed being film of Greb in the ring , but you can easily find film of his opponents beaten.


- Dr. Z

Thats a great quote

[QueensburyRules]

You are missing the point here my friend. Sam was fighting at heavyweight yes, but not solely heavyweight. In 1910 the Ketchel exhibition was to try and garner a middleweight title shot. There are plenty of fights between 1905 and 1913 where Sam weighed under either middle or lightheavyweight. It was until 1913 that his weight actually rose to that of a heavyweight. Had he not been ducked we may have never seen him stay at heavyweight......who knows?

- - Don't change that Sam fought JJohnson early in his career good enough to have JJ ducking him for the rest of JJ orchestrated career.

No need for Jack to duck Ketchell. Had Ketchell survived, Sam would KOed him in the rematch quite easily.