Marquez, IMO, was only outclassed in that hellacious 1st round. I think he tried slugging it out with Pac and came out on the losing end. But the tough son of a bitch gets up time after time. After that round you could see a major difference in JMM. He quickly adapted to Pac's swarming style and began counterpunching the shit out of him, winning basically every round after that. Marquez in that fight convinced me that he is the far more intelligent fighter because Manny could not do the same and successfully adapt to JMM's style. Manny is too one-dimensional sometimes and it's gonna come back to bite him in the ass next time he fights JMM or any other fighter with superior intelligence.
I had mellowed?? I can admit that he should be fighting tougher opposition, no problem, but that doesnt mean I've mellowed or think he's a coward, or whatever, for not fighting Pac again right away.
Me neither. Pac poses the biggest threat of all the fighters in consideration. I've already stated that the more sensible thing to do is fight someone like MAB or EM before a rematch with Pac.
This is an easy one. It's gotta be Foreman. Without his power, Foreman would have been an average Heavyweight. Instead, he is regarded as one of the greatest to ever lace up. Hell, he still had one-punch KO power into his mid-forties. Beat that!!!
I was watching the Johnson documentary and I started wondering, who was the most technically skilled fighter of all time? I've heard alot of people say it was Gene Tunney.
Also, from watching this documentary, I started thinking, how does the skill level of old time super skilled fighters match the fighters of today? Jim Corbett is always described as being astonishingly skilled, I wonder how his skills compare to todays fighters.
Also it's funny how "Gentleman" Jim was a violent racist!! LOL, I guess probably every white guy was racist back then (I'm white, I'm not taking shots at whitey :).
It's hard to compare. Most would say Ali. My choice is Sugar Ray Leonard. His skills were undeniable, but they might not have been the best. Like we've stated, it's very hard to compare. So many skilled fighters have been in the ring.
All the VK haters really need to give their fingers a rest and stop looking like idiots. If you haters came out and just plainly stated that VK is unproven, I would respect that. But, NO, you have to bash him by calling him robotic, having no skills, posing on magazines with his brother, etc. Your arguments have no credibility and show how little you respect the sport.
VK is fighting the best that will accept the fight to begin with. You don't think VK wants to whip Byrd, Ruiz, and Brewster to unify the titles? Why don't you start a thread about how these guys are ducking VK and how they are the biggest pussies in boxing? That's how most fans see it. Don King is one reason, but the fighters do have a say, after all, they do pay Don King's salary. DK and the other BS champions are all at fault and they should be criticized by the fans WAY MORE than what VK is receiving on this thread.
If I'm going by speed and agility, Hopkins is the top choice. His body movement and ring savvy make it nearly impossible to land a good one. As for pure toughness and elusiveness, I'd say VK. This is a guy we have seen take some pretty nasty punches and he doesn't even go down. Very hard man to knockout IMO.
Jack Johnson lived in a very different time from the 50's and 60's, much less 2005. I'm white, but I can honestly say that if I was black during those times, I probably would not be the most upbeat and community-driven citizen. It's ridiculous how people living in our politically-correct and more equalized society can actually use our culture and values to analyze and compare someone from the early 20th century.
I'm not sure if this has been said or not, (16 page thread, I'm not clicking 16 times ;-) )
but Tony Danza from Who's the Boss was a heavy hitter before he became an actor. He wanted to become world champion, 7 of his 9 KO's were in the first round. This was against decent opposition (for him) . Granted he got punked his 2nd pro fight but you gotta give him respect for loving the sport in his younger years. Him and Mickey Rourke are 2 actors I have a higher notch of respect for, even though Mickey wasn't the greatest fighter, at least his ass was in the ring. Anyway Tony was like 18th in his gym before he quit, supposedly.
here's a link to his accomplishments-
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=028927
LOL. never knew that. nice research.
Gotta go with Holyfield on this one. Lewis is one hell of a fighter, but his career-defining victories were over Hasim Rahman, a washed-up Mike Tyson, and a disputed stoppage over VK while losing on all scorecards. Holyfield on the other hand, captivated us throughout the 1990s with his entertaining and heart-filled bouts.
To tell you the truth, Lewis and Bowe would be a good fight. Two overweight has-beens duking it out. What a fight!! If this is true, Lewis fans need to get their heads out of their asses and admit that he is a washed-up fighter that has only beaten fighters WAY past their primes. I remember when people tried to say Lewis is one of the top ten heavyweights ever. LMFAO!!! What's even funnier is that Tyson would have fucked Lewis up if Lewis wasn't so tall and kept Tyson away with his jab and hugging all night..and Tyson was a shell of his former self. Lewis has always been the heavyweight chumpion of the world though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he came back to fight Bowe.
Besides John Ruiz, Byrd is the most boring champion there has ever been. Nobody likes to see him fight and if they do it's just because they want to see him get KTFO. He brings down boxing and its TV ratings. I used to ask people why they don't like boxing and they told me that the fighters today aren't worth watching on a Friday or Saturday night. Fighters like Byrd are a prime example of this.
Who knows who would win? We've all seen enough fights to know that any fighter can beat any fighter on any night. You can't really compare strengths and weaknesses because they could be neutralized for all we know. Frazier's power could be neutralized by Marciano's body work and so forth. The only way to really predict, and this is a toss-up, is toughness. Who would probably be the last man standing? I'd have to go with Marciano, who fought in a time when fighters were generally more rugged. The only rugged fighter who Frazier ever fought was Foreman, who absolutely destroyed him. But you never know.....
If you read some posts by speedracerxxx or lapulapu, you would see both sides of the same coin. Yet no one has ever made racial comments about them, or any other Pac fan.
Well, I'm NOT a Pac fan. I don't frequently visit Pac threads liek some people so I am not up to date on all of that. All I know is the threads that I am up to date on contained mauricio calling Pac fans names and saying how great Mexican fighters are. That, to me, is deserving of a few cheap shots.
BTW< sorry to all of the Mexicans who found it offensive. I was just playing stereotypes to insult ONE person. My brother-in-law is Mexican as are many of my friends. I also have many black friends and if you knew me in life, none of you would call me a racist.
by the way i am no racist so dont expect me to lower miself to your level
racism should not be allow in anyway,form shape or size even if sometimes sound or look funny :mad:
Lower yourself to our level? You ALWAYS call people bitches when they criticize Mexican fighters. WTF is wrong with you? That in itself is racism. You wanna bet against Pac? PM me and I'll bet you. I am no Pac fan, but I know enough about boxing to where I'm pretty sure Pac will whoop your little hombre's ass.
My only question is why doesn't Taylor have a fight vs. Hopkins since it is kinda believed that Taylor is the best middleweight out there. I've heard that Hopkins could barely stand a chance against him and all Hopkins does is fight people like Eastman and Joppy. Fuckin middleweight chumpion.
Your the fukin idiot! Who said I was talkin about ppl at Ft Polk im talkin about ppl in LA period. You know we were allowed to leave the base smart guy :rolleyes: I was in texas once, never been back it didnt impress me one bit.. But i did see A kid from OK and TX get into in basic. The TX kid ran up and nailed that kid from OK with a piece of metal in his hand. Kept screemin SOONER SOONER SOONER.... LOL man that shit was funny. Any way the OK stabed him4 days later. LOL That kid was a dumb hick for sure :p
Forgive me if I don't take the "idiot" insult too seriously since you are far more "idiotic"(and it shows). Sorry if you weren't able to meet any pretty girls down here, guess they stayed away from you, can't imagine why. And Texas didn't impress you? Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, etc. You must be a real loser to not have fun in these towns. If you can make yourself look any more pathetic, please let me know.
Oh, come on now, I know you're not that blind. I haven't used the words "scrotum" or "ballz" when having a normal conversation since I was in the 9th grade. I'm a senior at LSU right now and I've yet to hear someone use those words in regular conversation in four years of college. If they did they would get clowned on much like you surely do.
BTW, I'm not a Tito fan. I actually hate Tito. You can keep posting this garbage if you want. I need some entertainment on my off-night and this shit is hilarious.
LSU is actually a pretty good school academic-wise. It HAS to be better than the "real Univ" you went to. Or else you wouldn't sound so much dumber than me.
BTW, I like being a southern boy or a "hick" as you like to call it. How does it feel knowing that "hicks" get the prettiest girls, beat the shit out of football teams everywhere, and are apparently smarter than you?:nana:
Yeah, yeah. I said sissy-ass so that I wouldn't have to type another vulgar word that would have fit perfectly with you. You graduated from college 6 years ago and you act like this? Damn, you should come to LSU and maybe you'll get a decent education and you won't have to spend your life on the boxingscene forums talking shit to people who would otherwise kick your ass.
I gave it 7 rounds to 5 for Marquez. This is giving the close rounds to JMM. Even with this scoring, Pac should have gotten the nod.
You scored too many rounds for Pac. JMM pretty much won every round after the 1st except for a couple. I rooted for Pac, but I thought JMM deserved the win after neutralizing him for most of the fight.
Hey man don't waste yer breath on these PRs their all full of shit. Hopkins beat that mango eater bad and they all know it. Trinidad has nevered asked for a rematch and it shows cause he is goin to the dead supermiddle weight division and not forcing his mandatory. Those PRs are just pissed cause they worship Tito's scrotum as if they were the ballz of Christ themselves and it doesnt go wel with his persona that he is a scared bitch not askin for the rematch! Just enjoy their pathetic lies cause it's funny as hell! Hey Puerto Rico check this out!
http://www.neweraphoto.com/Tito-Hopkins9_small.jpg http://www.neweraphoto.com/Tito-Hopkins8_small.jpg http://www.boxingpress.de/fotos/Trinidadhopkins.jpg
You sure do use a bunch of sissy-ass, high-school words. You must get picked on in school, judging by your screenname..:slap:
He should fight De La Hoya or Trinidad, those would be interesting
or Mayorga, ahahhahah
I agree, Taylor-Mayorga and/or Taylor-Trinidad would be very interesting to watch. What's depressing is these fights likely won't happen. On a more realistic level, I think Taylor-Sturm would be a big draw.
SOrry, but what does being from the south have to do with boxing? I guess about as much as being from the north, east, or west...NOTHING. And this is coming from a guy that is supposed to be 6 years graduated. I guess I should thank you for making our education system look top-notch.
I may be a Pacfan...but that's racist bro! :mad:
Keep this thread clean.
LOL. Ya I know it sounds racist, but I've seen a whole lot worse on here. Sorry guys.
Jones at 160 was better then the man upstairs himself, he was above god like at middleweight. Roy gets my respect for what he did to Ruiz and for what he did below 175.
Hopkins Overrated? Noway! If that was the case, Hagler was overrated. He stayed in one division and fought every top fighter who came up from a lower division.
I dont think their is anything wrong with a guy staying in one division, If that is where he can dominate and feel comfortable why not? It was Bernards intentions when he acquired the belts to make 20 defenses from the beginning. So he cant help it if the division is mediocre or possibly he just makes them look that way? You decide.
I take nothing more away from Hopkins than I do Hagler, they both get my hats off and Hopkins is a true old school type of guy in and out of the ring (maybe not out so much now).
Hopkins deserves everything he has gotten and everything he will get.
Also it isnt like Hopkins could move down to 140 or go to heavyweight to squander out a great fight. Had he went to 154 or to 175 he would still have fought the high caliber guys at the low weight and the mediocre guys at the higher weight. Bernard was stick in the middle and stayed for people to come to him.
Of course he deserves it. My point was that he doesn't have the resume to be considered the best middleweight of all time. Hagler at least had Leonard and Hearnes, two of the best fighters at that weight we've ever seen. Even though they moved up in weight alot like De La Hoya, they were still elite opponents who were far beyond the skill of ANY fighter B-Hop has fought. The opponents B-Hop has faced can be considered decent, but he hasn't beaten any great fighters to deserve the "Best Middleweight Ever" award. It's definitely not all his fault, but that still doesn't prove anything. I have so many boxing-obsessed friends and co-workers who say the same thing so I know it can't just be me.
Yeah that chick in your avatar is so cute. :rolleyes: Nah not all southerners are hicks but ppl from LA are basically all fukin idots. I met alot of yer kind in the army and you all are just backward ppl that are lazy. Besides I was stationed at Fort Polk and man those chicks in the south are fukin horrible lookin! Bunch of snaggletooths "Ya'll comeback ya'here"
Yeah, people from LA are idiots, that's why you sound like such a dumbass. And Fort Polk? The only people that live there are in the army and aren't even from here. DUH!!! LMFAO!!!!
BTW, I'm from Texas and you look like a fucking fool right now.:bryce:
he DESTROYED Tito
Tito didn't win one round, so he showed nothin wrong.
Forget Tito. Tito got a gift decision vs. De la Hoya, a fighter who doesn't even belong at middleweight and got embarrassed by both Hopkins and Sturm. I give B-Hop credit for fighting a credible welterweight, even though it was a mismatch. The middleweight division is just fuked up. I hope that a contender comes up and fights B-Hop before it is too late and he retires. Jermain Taylor is on the rise, but B-Hop won't fight him, so maybe if someone with less talent comes along, we can see him in a real fight.
You're not the only one tired of hearing about it..
I just can't wait for it to be over...
I really hope there is a clear winner in the end so I won't have to worry about having to hear about a rematch..
Boo hoo. Who made you Mr. Important? Sorry, but you're pathetic life means nothign to everyone else, so the fact that YOU don't want to hear about a rematch is meaningless. If it is a good fight, then yes, I would like to see a rematch. And so does probably everyone else. It's just too bad that you're a dumbass retard who doesn't even know good boxing when it hits him in the face. Peace.