indeed. almost nobody saw what manny would become. just watched pac vs morales II and hearing the commentators slobber all over how manny had improved so much since the first fight... i was like, man, you ain't seen nothin yet
come on, the only similarity between ledwaba and mayweather is that they both have bullet jabs. manny's always, always, always been open to the stiff left jab, and hasn't been hurt by it in recent times (morales, ledwaba, cotto and even diaz all caught him with a number of hard jabs), so i really don't think it'll be a big factor.
but ledwaba didn't have anything except for that jab. his defense was mediocre, he had no right hand to speak of. he was a competent champ but not a world-beater.
mayweather's a different animal altogether. de la hoya has nice combinations, corrales was famous for his offense, and floyd didn't get hit square by either of them. zab and castillo did a good job early, but mayweather adjusted to zab and frankly wasn't in top form for the first castillo fight and proved it by beating him soundly in the 2nd. ledwaba was the very, very poor man's mayweather.
on the other hand, pacquiao destroyed ledwaba and has improved dramatically since that fight. he has a right hook counter with knockdown power, he's perfected the jab-jab-left straight, his head movement is good, his chin is top-notch and his trainer seems to have a perfect game plan for everything (except for pacquiao's nemesis marquez, who's a HOF in his own right).
all in all, pacquiao vs ledwaba tells us very little about what pacquiao vs mayweather will look like. it'll probably be closer to the first few rounds of mayweather-judah, except pacquiao's jab isn't as good as judah's, but throws much better combinations.
Put Berto in over Clottey... Not that Clottey isnt a very good fighter.. but its time for Berto to be included.
If he isnt that good, then we would find out real quick... but Clottey has had his shots, Berto hasnt yet.
agree with you, clottey's fought better opposition but came out on the losing end of his big fights, berto's undefeated but his biggest wins so far have been against urango and collazo... maybe it's time to give the guy a chance at the top. but so far, he hasn't participated in the super 6 cause he hasn't fought any of those guys.
but then again... someone on that list hasn't fought any of the others either.
at 135? give me a break. erik lost to raheem and david diaz at 135. floyd would be on another level, and probably score a late KO.
at 130? now we're talking. i still think mayweather would still outbox morales, and probably win a wide UD, but morales had a pretty good chin in the early part of his 130lb career, and some boxing smarts too. he'd survive and maybe trouble mayweather in spots like castillo did, but he wasn't a pure offensive machine like corrales, he'd do better. mayweather by UD.
paulie needs to get tested! but i don't care what the results are cause what he's taking you can't test for, i feel it in my gut!!! trust me on this guys!!!
check his hair extensions for DNA, i bet you can trace the roids there!! but if you don't find nothin then check his hand wraps, i bet he put rocks in there. if you still dont find nothin then he's on roids, i guarantee it!!!
my take? pac probably isn't taking, he's 100% agreeable on blood tests right after the fight, he just doesn't want to risk being weakened by a blood test before the fight. all of mayweather sr's talk is mind games. gotta admire the man and his son: they know their mind games.
i think pac should just take them tests though. i seriously doubt a fighter of pac's caliber would be weakened by a blood test, enough to cause him to lose a fight, especially if floyd's willing to take them too. i think he's partly reluctant to take them because of hurt pride, doesn't want floyd and his camp to score an early victory.
but i think pac should just let floyd win this battle, but prepare to win the war.
mayweather lost his lineal title when he announced his retirement. we all know he's unbeaten and he's the man who beat the man (which is part of why this fight is so intriguing), but you can't retire for a while, give everyone else a chance to fight each other, maybe crown a new champion here and there, and come back and say you're still on top... it's just not how it happens.
that's why leonard fought hagler for a middleweight belt when he came back (he won). same with ali going through the motions of challenging frazier again after his 3 year retirement (he lost the first). you gotta prove you still got it by facing the best in the division.
that's probably true, pac got it because of mosley's inactivity. a good win by mosley against berto, which i'm expecting, will put him back on top of the rankings of the welterweight division because of his accomplishments there overall.
Pac's still P4P though, til march when it might change
the ideal situation would have been if mayweather took on mosley for his first fight after his retirement, like sugar ray leonard took on hagler for the middleweight belt...
then this fight would have been for the WBA, WBO, ring magazine and P4P belts. oh well
i think mosley and mayweather both have a symbolic claim to being the man... mosley beat margarito, who beat cotto, while mayweather retired for reasons unknown and decided to come back, and is still unbeaten. manny actually has the least claim, banking on the possibility that margo cheated when he beat cotto, which isn't conclusively proven, and we don't know if he'd have beaten cotto anyway if he hadn't cheated. manny's ranked #1 by the ring magazine mostly because of the quality of his wins, not because he proved it through some rules.
that's why i think the winner of manny-floyd should fight mosley if mosley gets past berto... but if berto pulls out a victory, that fight becomes irrelevant, and pac-mayweather will be for all the marbles.
Well he certainly won't just stand there in front of FMJ like he did with Josh last night... Pac didn't move around as much in last nights fight as he did in his last 3 fights because he didn't have to waste the energy. Even though Josh was coming forward, he was covering up so Pac didn't have to worry about movement as much. All Pac had to do last night against a completely defensive fighter was overwhelm him with punches. Pac wasn't even throwing hard punches, just lots of them.
Some people saying because of last nights fight that they know FMJ would beat Pac. All I'm saying is it's silly to think that Pac would fight the same way against Floyd as he did with Clottey last night. Two totally different styles between the two and Pac knows it. I agree about the jab, and it was good to see Pac using it in this fight in the first few rounds. He will definately need to keep a good jab in a fight with FMJ.
some green k for you my friend
i wonder how many times we're going to see the words "michael phelps" in this forum before the retards learn how to read? i predict that this thread will still be active by june!
pac's easy to place. morales and barrera are pretty evenly matched, but in my eyes barrera takes it by a hair cause of his wins over morales in the trilogy and the epic takedown of naseem hamed. marquez is interesting... i think he would have a better than 50% chance of beating both barrera and morales in their primes, and indeed got a win over a past-prime barrera. his accomplishments at lightweight also put him high in the list, and he was evenly matched with pac when they were at 126 and 130. so my rankings are:
1. Pac
2. Marquez
3. Barrera
4. Morales
it feels crazy to put morales so low, and on another day my bottom 3 might be shuffled around, but that's how i see it right now
i think that there was no direction for boxing to go but this one. the more popular it got, the more people wanted to divide the spoils, and so you got all the alphabet titles and crap like that.
MMA will go in the same direction eventually. all you really need is several superstars to emerge in strikeforce to give some real competition to the UFC, and it's gonna start looking like boxing with several champs per division.
that said, it still sucks. boxing could do better than a fight like pac vs margarito.
i think everyone can agree that the fight isn't what the public or the fans were looking for. people wanted mayweather vs pacquiao. instead we get pacquiao vs convicted cheater at 150 for a useless belt.
but the question is, is that as bad as everyone says? because the demand for pac vs margarito is still pretty big, probably worth a full dallas cowboys stadium and a couple hundred thousand PPV buys.
and the bigger question is, is this fight bad for boxing? the evidence the writer showed suggests that boxing's had worse, and still came out strong. think about all the sold fights. think about the mafia. think about the racism, the drugs, the deaths, mike tyson biting off holyfield's ear. but boxing's still alive and strong, because boxing's still boxing.
and maybe all this complaining's just feeding the hype.
times have changed, eh? right after pac beat de la hoya a couple years back, the media asked freddie roach if he was willing to put pac in front of margo, who was champion at the time. roach said something like, "we're not that crazy!"
nowadays, most people think this is gonna be easy pickings for pac, and they're calling him weak for "ducking" williams or martinez.
i won't be surprised if after the margo fight the mayweather-pacquiao negotiations collapse one more time and pac fights either williams or martinez at junior middle. i really won't.
Do you retards ever get tired of posting this bull****?:peeright:
do i ever get tired of doing your sister? not as long as i'm alive and she's still pretty, bro
no way they turn down that fight. too much money. i personally think they both are friends and are doing all this bull poop as a promotional thing. honestly lol
i doubt it, but it would make sense, wouldn't it? more likely arum and schaefer are planning this. too much money for both of them too, considering they get a chunk of both fighters' earnings.
theyre maximizing the money. if floyd and pac fight right now and its a one sided figth there is nobody left for either fighter to fight ya know?
both clean out their divisions then fight. its all bout the money
exactly. makes economic sense.
99,9% sure.. margarito is no threat to pacquiao.. pacquie will come in roided to the max and get an easy win.. margo can do nothing to change that and i dont think he really cares bout this fight just a payday
disagree with you on 2/3. i don't think pac's on roids. i do think this fight will be easy. i don't think margo is indifferent, it's his face getting mashed in the ring. he's gonna do everything he can to win, and he's gonna have his ass handed to him.
I hope people ignore this fight,by buying it we are just setting ourselves up for more shitty catchweight fights.
my bad, not on fight night, i meant on the weigh in. i'll change the title
Pac DEFO hits harder IMO
his punches are definitely crisper. but harder? margo beat cotto up pretty bad too, and we're not 100% sure he had plaster in his gloves when he did it. he also beat clottey about the same as pac. the reason pac gets so many KDs is that the opponent often doesn't see the punches coming; hatton, diaz, barrera, morales, cotto, all these guys were put down by punches they didn't see.
aside from those punches, i'm guessing pac and margo have about the same power.