Good historical perspective from Carlos Acevedo on thecruelestsport.com.
Here's the link.
An excerpt:
"Fitzsimmons also pointed out—with a crooked finger, no doubt–that Henry Armstrong never asked anyone to concede on weight when he terrorized several divisions simultaneously. No, but Jimmy McLarnin did. Battling Nelson once forced Joe Gans to weigh-in just before the opening bell of their fight (he also forced Gans to weigh-in three times on fight day, forcing Gans to forego food and water). Tony Janiro would only fight Jake LaMotta if LaMotta agreed to weigh 155 pounds. Juan Manuel Marquez agreed to face Floyd Mayweather Jr. at a catchweight that Mayweather refused to honor. Barney Ross once won both the world lightweight title and the world junior welterweight title in the same match against Tony Canzoneri. Most recently, and perhaps most infamously, Sugar Ray Leonard won two titles in two different weight classes simultaneously by knocking out Don Lalonde in 1988. Lalonde came in 8 pounds beneath his usual light heavyweight mark, and Leonard was a full 10 pounds lighter than the 175-pound weight limit. Shallow historical comparisons are the norm for most boxing writers, but it would be nice if a broader scope was used once in a while."
By the way, I'm against the fight myself, in principle. cheater like margo should not get a seven figure payday. but i'm interested in intelligent discussion of this, not just random shouting, and this writer knows a couple things i didn't.
i think that there was no direction for boxing to go but this one. the more popular it got, the more people wanted to divide the spoils, and so you got all the alphabet titles and crap like that.
MMA will go in the same direction eventually. all you really need is several superstars to emerge in strikeforce to give some real competition to the UFC, and it's gonna start looking like boxing with several champs per division.
that said, it still sucks. boxing could do better than a fight like pac vs margarito.
How has it helped? I think the main reason mainstream sports media doesn't pay attention to boxing anymore (and casual sports fans as a result) is because it's an absolute mess.
Just because Arum, King, Greenburg, Sulaiman, Schaefer, and the like run the sport to their benefit doesn't mean the fans should accept it, or take the attitude of, "well, that's just the way things are. What are you gonna do?"
im not talkin bout the promoters, but the belt organizations.
I would like an actual explination why the catch weight is a bad thing? If both fighters agree to it and can make the weight whats the problem?
Nobody ever said that title fights have to be held at the Maximum weigh in limit for a weight class so again whats the fuking problem? It's not a rule guys!
hard to be idealistic in these times. sadly we cant bring back that one champion per division era. but we cant say it didnt do boxing anything good to have multiple organizations. commercially i think it did help, but the downside is having too many champs. lineal is the nearest you can hope for probably.
How has it helped? I think the main reason mainstream sports media doesn't pay attention to boxing anymore (and casual sports fans as a result) is because it's an absolute mess.
Just because Arum, King, Greenburg, Sulaiman, Schaefer, and the like run the sport to their benefit doesn't mean the fans should accept it, or take the attitude of, "well, that's just the way things are. What are you gonna do?"
hard to be idealistic in these times. sadly we cant bring back that one champion per division era. but we cant say it didnt do boxing anything good to have multiple organizations. commercially i think it did help, but the downside is having too many champs. lineal is the nearest you can hope for probably.
blame tv networks.
they always want to call televised matches "championship" fights.
Neither deserves the belt. I wouldn't consider the winner as a champion. And, I would count it as Pac 8th title. But, I do think it is an entertaining fight.
Which is why it's wrong. I think all boxing fans would love a sport based on actual rankings, with one champion per division, and the best fighting the best instead of the current ****show that is professional boxing. But if something is going to make money for a promoter, venue, television network, sanctioning body, and the fighters, then the "sport" aspect is thrown out, and it becomes strictly a business.
Margarito hasn't done anything to deserve a shot at the biggest name in the sport, and probably earn the biggest paycheck of his life. I know this kind of thing happens a lot in boxing (unfortunately), but add to the fact that he was caught cheating, got knocked out, then had his license denied for renewal... I don't know. It's just not right, regardless of the catch weight or belt or other issues.
hard to be idealistic in these times. sadly we cant bring back that one champion per division era. but we cant say it didnt do boxing anything good to have multiple organizations. commercially i think it did help, but the downside is having too many champs. lineal is the nearest you can hope for probably.
end of the day.. you cant defend that its for a vacant title at a catch weight in a weight class thats new to them.
the catchweight is bull****.
the people *****ing about them getting a shot for a vacant title are guys who don't know any better.
how many former/current welterweight champions get a title shot without ever fighting at that weight before?
how many lame bums get a shot for a vacant belt?
Some of you make some excellent points but the bottom line in all of this is MONEY.
That's why it makes me shake my head when some of you don't understand this. Marg is a bigger draw because of the Mexican fight crowd and it being held in Texas.
It's an easy, made to order opponent for Marg and not a threatening fight before he tried to get the Floyd Mayweather fight.
Nothing more nothing less.
Which is why it's wrong. I think all boxing fans would love a sport based on actual rankings, with one champion per division, and the best fighting the best instead of the current ****show that is professional boxing. But if something is going to make money for a promoter, venue, television network, sanctioning body, and the fighters, then the "sport" aspect is thrown out, and it becomes strictly a business.
Margarito hasn't done anything to deserve a shot at the biggest name in the sport, and probably earn the biggest paycheck of his life. I know this kind of thing happens a lot in boxing (unfortunately), but add to the fact that he was caught cheating, got knocked out, then had his license denied for renewal... I don't know. It's just not right, regardless of the catch weight or belt or other issues.
if this were ordinary fighters, i bet nobody would give a flying fukk about the catchweight. look at the diaz-malignaggi fight, it was a catchweight of 138.3485962 or so lbs but nobody really cared.
what added fuel to this is that ppl were majorly disappointed in the pac-floyd fight not happening and vented their ire on whoever either will fight instead.
i still cant understand this not agreeing to this catchweight and this fight etc etc, theres really a lot of posers here claiming they are fans of boxing daymn, if youre really what you claimed you are let me remind you this BOXING is the red light district of sports. it is once called prizefighting and fights with bets are done not on top of the ring, its done on the streets, garages private compounds until some people made arenas for them. now if you come and tell people you do not agree with catchweights etc and all those bull****s, what can you expect?? but hell nobodys holding you up, go away, leave, youre not influencing true fight fans.
Some of you make some excellent points but the bottom line in all of this is MONEY.
That's why it makes me shake my head when some of you don't understand this. Marg is a bigger draw because of the Mexican fight crowd and it being held in Texas.
It's an easy, made to order opponent for Marg and not a threatening fight before he tried to get the Floyd Mayweather fight.
Nothing more nothing less.
key word defended...not fought for a vacant title neither deserve to be fighting for period
Believe me, I agree. I don't support Pac-Margarito for a title in anyway.
That writer is full of $hit,there have been plenty of catchweight title fights,we all know this!!But how many have been for a vacant title at a catchweight between the pfp #1 & a man we all knew WAS going to cheat"that's a fact",by the way,how many??Manny is fighting a cheater,who is nothing at 154 for a belt at a catchweight,period!The argument about Berto,or the Punisher or anyone else Pacman didn't fight because their not a draw,is null & void based on the fact that he fought Clottey,who's a worse sell than them all!!This fight is a joke,the end!!:dunno:
This also!!
Well I think it's being a little shortsighted to assume people's problem with this fight is the catchweight.
It's a combination of several things.
1) Margarito is a cheater who should be banned for life
2) The title is vacant which is bull**** cause Pac would have never stepped to Martinez
3) It's clear that Bob Arum tells Pac who to fight and Pac just bends over and takes it
4) The catchweight simply just adds another reason not to like it
There is nothing about this fight that deserves anything but derision from true fans of the sport.
End tread here!!:hail::hail::hail:
Well I think it's being a little shortsighted to assume people's problem with this fight is the catchweight.
It's a combination of several things.
1) Margarito is a cheater who should be banned for life
2) The title is vacant which is bull**** cause Pac would have never stepped to Martinez
3) It's clear that Bob Arum tells Pac who to fight and Pac just bends over and takes it
4) The catchweight simply just adds another reason not to like it
There is nothing about this fight that deserves anything but derision from true fans of the sport.
margrito isnt even ranked by ring mag. is he?
i think everyone can agree that the fight isn't what the public or the fans were looking for. people wanted mayweather vs pacquiao. instead we get pacquiao vs convicted cheater at 150 for a useless belt.
but the question is, is that as bad as everyone says? because the demand for pac vs margarito is still pretty big, probably worth a full dallas cowboys stadium and a couple hundred thousand PPV buys.
and the bigger question is, is this fight bad for boxing? the evidence the writer showed suggests that boxing's had worse, and still came out strong. think about all the sold fights. think about the mafia. think about the racism, the drugs, the deaths, mike tyson biting off holyfield's ear. but boxing's still alive and strong, because boxing's still boxing.
and maybe all this complaining's just feeding the hype.