Here is my take on this.
Vernon Forrest was bigger and just knew how to beat Shane Mosley. He did it in the amateurs and he did it in the pros. That was just a style thing. Shane went on to knock out Ricardo Mayorga who knocked out Forrest, reinforcing that styles make fights.
Winky Wright was just bigger and stronger then Shane. He pretty much pushed Shane around the ring. It wasn't that he using movement and outboxing him. Mosley did better in the rematch but he just wasn't strong enough for Wright.
Miguel Cotto pretty much fought Shane even up. He outboxed Shane a little here and there, but he lost 3 of the last 4 rounds. No problem with Cotto getting the decision, but it was a very close fight. Heck they landed the same amount of punches.
Ask yourself these questions. Does a 5'8" Floyd Mayweather beat a prime Winky Wright at 154 and or does he beat a prime 6' Vernon Forrest at 147. I think the answer is no. I think Floyd would beat Cotto, but it would have been a close competitive decison.
In the fight I would make Floyd a 2 to 1 favorite just based on youth and he his a little more skilled then Shane. But Shane is a live dog. He is stronger, the harder puncher, and he is determined to do well. On paper this is Floyd's toughest fight.
Here is the problem with this entire assessment. I give you credit for thinking this out but it entirely wrong and biased towards Mayweather. This is exactly what has been going on over the last 2 weeks of discussions. Lawyers for both camps have been doing the negotiations. In the end Haymon, Ellerbe and company agreed that the contract Mosley signed was good enough for them. So at that time they were aware of loopholes etc. if there were any in the agreement. This isn't rocket science. It doesn't take an extended period of time to figure this out. If Mayweather had a problem with the agreement it should have been brought to Burstein and Mosley's attention prior to them signing it so it could be looked at and discussed. But Mayweather waited to the last minute to back out.
Here in lies the problem. At least the root of the problem. Mayweather is reluctant to fight anybody worth their salt. It is just a flat out fact. Only once in his career he in a fight were he was in situation where odds makers had him less then a 2 to 1 favorite. (Diego Corales) After he moved up to Welterweight he decided to pick and choose. Everybody talks about how he wanted to fight everybody, but after this crap, who is say he would had signed the contract if Mosley would have wanted the fight in 2006. His credible is worthless. I mean his fans will say otherwise. But in the end fan are short for 'Fanatics' and they will not help his legacy. They are blinded by the Floyds reasoning, but the truth will hurt when Floyd is judged by his peers. His legacy will be decided by writers, trainers, his peers, and historians. And they will view his legacy as coming up short because he was afraid to take tough fights. In fact, what he is doing right now is not helping his pocket book. Where will be his leverage over Pacquiao after this? He gets Mosley to take a drug test, but refuses to fight him. This give Pacquiao leverage, as he can say you know what, you didn't fight Mosley and he has a documented steroid past, he was going to take the tests. Now you want me too. He is just going to laugh. I would argue after this lastest fiasco that Floyd Mayweather is a terrible businessman. Just backed out on two 20 plus million dollar fights.
This fight as about as close to off as off can be. Floyd refuses to sign the contract. It is that simple. It is sitting there probably at his house and he terrified of Shane Mosley. He is having night terrors of Mosley hitting him to the body. He just doesn't want anything to do with him.
Floyd should start negotiations with Rafael Marquez. I mean he just beat his brother. The can fight at a catch weight of lets say, 146. Now that would be something. The promotion could be Revenge. Marquez trying to avenge his brother defeat. Hey somebody call Ellerbe and Haymon. They could get this done right away. No blood test needed.
I would put Mosley ahead of Toney just as he didn't have bad losses to bad competition as Toney did. Both have a steroid history.
Floyd would drop on my list too below Mosley, Holyfield, and Toney because he never fought any challenges fight of which he could lose. In order to be the best you have to beat the best.
Duran would beat Mayweather in their primes at 135. Too strong for him. Mayweather would have won some rounds and it may well be close but in the end Duran just is too relentless for Floyd.
Cotto is much more humble then Vargas. Yes that is true. But career wise he is in the same boat as Vargas. Balloning in Weight between fights, and getting a beat down in the 2 biggest fights in his career. Cotto probably has more gas in the tank physically then Vargas, but where is the man at mentally as a fighter. He took 2 extraordinary beatings, and he had 2 other really hard fights against Mosley and Clottey. Like I said we shall see. I want to see Cotto do well, he is a good fighter. But not getting a real trainer is not a good sign.
Yeah...Mosley should have gotten the decision. But it was a terrible fight and draw nonetheless. The media was pretty much uniamous in the opinion Mosley won.
I have a ton of respect for Doug Fischer. He is one of the best minds in the sport. But 117-111 Mora is way off base. But to each is own. We all look for different things. Mora techinque is not about scoring points. It was about making Mosley look bad. The thing was if Mora actually did some work he could have won the fight. But he didn't do a dang thing and thus the draw of which he should have lost. Oh well that is boxing.
Berto knocks out Pac and Mayweather. He is the greatest fighter who ever lived. Didn't you see his fight against Luis Collazo. That was a dominate performance.
I find this article to be quite reasonable. Manny Pacquiao is one of the greatest fighters of all time no doubt. Top 20 in my opinion. But the fact remains he never fought a great African American fighter. I find it funny when people always say things are racist. It is just an observation. Heck Manny could knock them all out, we just don't know.
Fighting Floyd would solve that. Floyd is the best out there besides Manny. And fighting Shane Mosley would quiet some of the critics as well, though Mosley is not what he used to be, he still is a formidble fighter and a hard puncher. But before people bash this as racist, you have to realize Pacquiao does need to quiet these critics if he wants to be placed in the top 5 ever where some already have him.
Pacquiao if he retires today is an all time great. But without answering this question, he can't be considered the greatest.
Floyd never fought a great Filipino fighter...
You don't have to be black to be slick...Marvin Hagler doesn't fight like Pernell Whitaker...
It is a matter of style. If we want to get techinical here. Manny has beaten Oscar De La Hoya who has an Olympic background and is an american style fighter, but not african american. So maybe when people put race out there it is not merited. But if you want to be considered in the same breath as Sugar Ray Robinson, there can't be any questions. You can't have people asking those "yeah but questions" because regardless how you or I feel there will be questions out there unless Pac fights and beats a few guys with the so called "African American" style. I think Manny beats Mosley, Berto, Bradley easily. Mayweather is a pick'em fight. But Mayweather is dodging Pac. So Pac in the meantime should just make a few million and shut his critics up.
I think Marquez's great head movement would avoid Shane big right hand.
Marquez is the greatest fighter who ever lived. He would have knocked out Margarito in 5 rounds, it took Mosley 9. It took Pac 12.
Mosley is going to get sued by Golden Boy right quick. Can't fault Mosley for wanting the fight. But he should be thankful for what Golden Boy did for his late part of his career. But business is business.
I could see Golden Boy submitting an injuction trying to prevent Mosley from fighting on his own, thus stopping the potential of this fight. It all depends if Mosley is still under contract.
Mosley hasn't won in a couple of years, and wasn't competitive and was lethargic in the fights that followed.
Margarito wasn't 100% in both frame of mind and physically, and before that, he needed the spirit of Jesus to beat Mayorga.
The last time he looked good, was against the Cotto fight. Its over, Shane is doing nothing but embarrassing himself right now
Hatton got stretched by Mayweather. He got a Pac fight. Margo was assaulted by Mosley. This not in the right frame of mind stuff is horse crap. Every fight has a different dynamic. You need to go out and perform. Shane whoops Margos ass everyday a week and twice on Sundays. He could have been 52 and he still would whoop his ass.
Mayweather would have beat Shane if Shaen was in his prime. Didn't matter. It would have been closer, but Mayweather's Style beats Shane's style. I think stylistically Pac_Mosley would a good match-up. Pac would probably stop him late, but Mosley could test him. Berto would be no test and would offer no resistance. Mosley is at least a 1st ballot hall of famer with a world class chin, and world class punch. He is live in any fight.
So let him win a fight with Berto or somebody so he can become a legit challenger to Pac. Kellerman said on the air right into the camera Saturday that Mosley was an "unacceptable opponent" for Pac. And he's right.
Pac needs to fight fresh blood, not fight a guy with six losses. Floyd, Bradley, Alexander, and Berto are the guys to be matched with. Mosley is yesterdays news until he proves otherwise.
If Pacquiao fight the winner of Bradley-Alexander then I am all for it. They will have proven against each other that either is worthy of a big fight.
But telling me this fresh blood crap is hogwash when comes to Berto. Berto has not beaten an top 50 pound for pound guy in his entire 27 fight career. And now you are telling me after he crushes a C minus fighter Freddy Hernandez that he is worthy of a Pacquiao fight. Berto is Michael Grant..and HBO manufactured fighter.
Mosley is not what he used to be, but he is a sure fire hall of famer who will bring it no matter the result.
Berto is a fighter who will get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round against Pac. He has no chin..none. He is a flash in the pan.
Pacquiao should fight Mayweather...no disputing that at all. That is the fight we all want. But for people to argue Berto just simply because he is younger is horse crap. If Berto would have fought and beat someone of reason then I would say, go for it. But Berto has feasted on smaller guys. His only real step up in comp was against Collazo. Collazo almost knocked him out. Literally in the 1st round. If Pac had him hurt like that it would have been over. Heck Cosme Rivera almost knocked him.
I would rather Pacquiao fight Bradely-Alexander winner then Mosley. But Berto is the last person who should be fighting Pacquiao. I would rather JMM fight Pacquiao at 147 then Berto. Berto is not worthy, period!! He needs to fight someone in the top 10 to prove himself before he gets a shot at the big time. I am surprised most don't agree with that.
One more thing. Mayweather seems to get no credit for beating Mosley. People write it off as Mosley being shot. Mosley whooped Margarito just as bad as Pac did.
Now I ain't saying Mosley is Pac good. He isn't. And I ain't saying I love Floyd, i think he is a damn fool. But Floyd is a damn great fighter. And so is Pac. And Mosley is a 1st ballot hall of famer who still carrys a world class chin and punch.
Like I said, Mayweather beats Mosley no matter what the year is. It would have been closer in 1998, but Mayweather still would have won. But Mosley is a great fighter too...no what he was, but on any given night a guy like Mosley could rise to the occassion.
Berto is 27 but he is and never will be Mosley good. Shane Mosley at 27 was a world beater and destroying everybody. Berto is getting dropped by c minus fighters and fighting even up with bottom tier top 20 welters. A 39 Mosley is better option for Pac, financially and competitively.
Sergio Martinez is the fighter of the year!! No doubt. That was incredible last night. A fight with Floyd would be great. But I think we may see a 3rd fight.
Shane has not won a fight in two years.
Lets see him not look like complete **** in the ring before he gets to challenge Pacquiao.
As it is now, it's an AWFUL fight.
This winning fight stuff is overrated. Give Mosley Juan Urango and Freddy Hernandez. He got waxed by Mayweather...no shame there. He was the 1st real person to have him hurt. He outworked Mora, but got shamed on a decision. Mora is a middleweight who would have given Mosley trouble in 2003, 04,05,06. It was just a bad style fight. Terrible matchmaking.
Give Mosley a Freddy Hernandez fight and see what happens.
We seem to forget, everybody wrote Mosley off going into the Margo fight. He came out and won. Now I am not saying Mosley will be beat Pac. He won't. But nobody will. At least he can test him with his power. Berto will go out on a stretcher. No chin.
If Alexander-Bradley winner gets a shot. Then it will be earned. Those 2 guys are going out trying to prove themselves. But for you people calling for Berto you are a bunch of fools.
The whole career of Andre Berto is cuddling joke. He is just like Michael Grant. In his entire career he has fought 1 top 10 welterweight. And he arguably lost the fight.(Luis Collazo) He was knocked down by a pedestrian fighter named Cosme Rivera. And now he is fighting a guy who lost to Golden Johnson. The same Golden Johnson who was crushed by Margo and Shane. I repeat GOLDEN JOHNSON.
Now Dan Rafael and others are trying to sell me this fight because Berto is 27 and Mosley is 39. The question you need to ask, would you rather fight a 'has been' and put that on your resume or would you rather fight a 'never was'
Berto has talent, but he needs to fight a top 10 welterweight before you fight the best fighter in the world.
People are down on Mosley because he jumps a division to fight a middleweight and loses to Floyd Mayweather Jr. arguable one of the great boxers of the last 50 years. It boggles my mind for the love affair for Berto. He will beat a guy this week who lost to Golden Johnson...Freddy Hernandez lost to Golden Johnson.
Andre Berto=Michael Grant...Pac-Berto=Lennox Lewis-Michael Grant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R38me5203X8
I don't care about someone's face. Watch the film. Mosley destroyed Margo. Pacquiao dominated him.
This is not an indictment on Pacquiao. I am just saying Mosley whooped his ass and got the better finish. Plus he didn't get hurt like Pac. That being said Pacquiao wacks Shane Mosley anyday of the week. But Pac's performance needs perspective.
The CURRENT Number 2 guy Pound for Pound fighting the Number 3 Guy Pound for Pound not a legitimate super fight? What?? Both guys were former P4P kings. This has to be the dumbest crap I have ever read.
I mean you can count on your hands over how many times this has actually happened over the last 20 or 25 years. This is just a post from an uninformed stupid idiot who knows jack crap about boxing. Get a life, or at least get an informed opinion.
Ariza is a genius. I think he is brilliant. Mosley is the biggest quitter ever. Didn't anybody watch the 1st fight against Vernon Forrest. Ariza sure did, he saw Mosley take a huge beating and he just quit after being destroyed in 2nd round. Ariza is a brilliant student of Mosley's career. I think he remembers the time when Mosley quit after being behind on the scorecards in teh 1st De La Hoya fight. Man Mosley is quitter....Mosley is a bum!
Cotto beat Shane Mosley fair and square. Shane is below Cotto imo.
Jermain Taylor beat Bernard Hopkins twice so I guess Bernard is below Jermain. And also didn't Iran Barkley knock out Tommy Hearns, so I guess your Hearns is worse historically then Barkley. Your logic is terrible and stupid. Cotto could very way make his way back, but he needs to start winning again before he is back to the elite level.