Pac won a very close fight. This is not a thread to debate who won the fight.
But Im actually kinda glad that it was another war. In every sport, complacency is the downfall of all great athletes and teams. Pac has been steamrolling through competition for too long. He needed this close fight to remind him that hard work and good preparation are what will win the megafights (floyd).
I hope Pac and his camp realizes that he doesn't automatically win just because he is the better athlete, fighter, etc. This is why we love sports.
Sorry dude, but reality check for you too. After that effort last night Pac would be absolutely embarrassed and destroyed by Mayweather, his only chance is to start boxing like he use to... aggressive, angles and overwhelming opponents with speed. He aint no technical boxer, Freddy Roach has some explaining to do...
When I see scorecards as a draw or pac winning i feel like i woke up in a Twilight zone episode where the whole world is on crack. 116-112 Marquez, and that's being generous to Pacquiao. I was a Pacquiao fan but this decision was obscene. Marquez outclassed him easily.
I just scored again, and gave all of the close rounds to pac, and still at worst should have been a draw. There is no way in hell he won by 116, or 115 imo. No way.
I wouldnt complain as much about a draw, but imo pac did nothing big to win the fight. He was flustered and outboxed all night.
All through the later rounds the announcers were ragging on marquez for not doing enough...well wtf did pacquiao the champ do? IMo, truth be told, they were not gonna let marquez ruin a mega million payday. At he end of the day, money talks. Thats why im not too sold on seeing a rematch. It will be another good match, but the end will be much of the same. Its a shame, this could have been a shining moment.
Agree with you sentiments here dude. Originally I watched the fight and thought he was robbed, I had Marquez up 116 rounds to 112. On replay I had it much closer 115 rounds to 113 Marquez or a draw. Either way Pacman should not have got the victory IMO, if it was going to anyone Marquez should have come out on top. A lot of the punches I thought Pac missed he actually landed on replay, but Marquez controlled the fight and its style and landed the best combinations and cleaner punches by far.
The HBO commentary was so pro Pacquiao, I only heard it when I watched the replay and Lederman's card was a disgrace. It was all for Pacquiao, all benefit of the doubt and much support.
No need for a rematch as I can't see anything changing for the next one, close and difficult to call again unless Pacquiao comes out fighting in his old vein and takes risks to put Marquez away. I don't think Marquez can knock Pacquiao out.
The question is who does Pacquiao face? I wouldn't give Pac a chance against Mayweather after that performance, or his last few, Mayweather will take him for 12 rounds and school him.
You're reason for saying that Pac's brawling style is better for him than his current more controlled style is the fact that he won and kd'd jmm in their first 2 fights. Thats silly.
I scored it 7 rounds to 5 Pac. I don't know what fight you saw, but that place was dominated by JMM fans. They were LOUD from round 1. I did not hear a "Manny" once. I agree than JMM clearly landed the clearer more flush shots, but so did Clottey. You don't win rounds by getting your opponent with 1 or 2 great shots and eating 5-6. Pac was dissapointed because he failed to deliver a definitive win and KO not because he thought he lost the fight. The only damage JMM gave him was a busted lip and a headbutt. JMM's face was clearly tagged up from all the punches he took from Pac.
It was not a robbery. It was a very close fight. Pac landed more punches and won more rounds. Again, there are plenty of threads to debate on who won the fight, this isn't one of them. I respect the opinions of people who thought JMM won a CLOSE fight. It wasn't a "boxing clinic" no one "outclassed" anyone. I gave it to Pac, you gave it to JMM. I hope they fight again.
I wasn't talking about Filipinos at ringside, I was speaking about the 1000 Filipinos at the Venue where I was out of 1100 people, without commentary, simply watching the fight unfold, not a sound...
Don't take my word for it that Pacquiao fought better and was a better fighter previous, Larry Merchant's latest article talks all about it. His victories over Barerra, Morales and the first Marquez fight were his finest wins against true champions and tough boxers whose records stand the test of time. His latest triumphs have been thoroughly underwhelming with opposition on their way out, sideways or down.
Pacquiao had such great potential but his new life as poster boy and potential President has robbed boxing of a great fighter. I think that's the most disappointing thing, he's so big and loved in the Philippines that the powers that be can't have him lose and can't have him take risks, a real shame. There's no need to fight again the score is 2 to 1 to Marquez, but if they do the result will be no different and the controversy will continue.
As much as I dislike Floyd Mayweather, that fight ain't going to happen, Pacquiao will get creamed all the way to a 12 round decision, and now he knows it.. No overwhelming pressure on Floyd no way to win, he'll pick Pac to pieces. Before this fight I though he may have a chance but Marquez confirms the result of a Mayweather fight. I don't know who that leaves him to fight, nobody's i guess.
Are you trying to say that pac was a better fighter when he was a straight up brawler??? ie morales 1 ? Are you kidding me?! Manny's natural speed and power with the technical boxing that he gained from Roach made him better.
I do agree that Pac tried to outbox JMM too much, meaning he was way too conservative and cautious. But that doesn't mean that he should've gone full brawler mode instead. It should've been somewhere in the middle.
Go watch the fight again and watch when Pac was moving to his right, JMM's left. that's when he was getting JMM and JMM was unable to counter since Pac would be almost behind him after. Then Pac's corner told him to keep doing that, but he didn't listen.
Marquez outclassed Pac? Really? I respect your opinion if you think JMM won the CLOSE FIGHT. But to say that JMM outclassed Pac is plain retard! Did you see JMM's face after the fight? The DEFENSIVE fighter got hit more, that's why he lost.
OK, just rewatched the fight.
No I'm not advocating he go back to being a one punch fighter, but having only lost to Morales but beating Barerra and drawing with Marquez before that fight he was doing pretty well as a loose canon...
Was Manny a better fighter when he first fought Marquez? It looks that way because he won the first fight, knocked him down 4 times and only closely lost the second fight in my opinion. If he fought like that yesterday there was every possibility of taking Marquez out by being explosive and unpredictable, not by being careful. All the talk from Pacs corner was how this was going to be definitive with a knockout... I was hoping that Pacman was going to show up and teach Marquez a lesson, but it was the other way around.
To be honest on replay the HBO broadcast and commentary seems highly biased, not to mention the pathetic scoring by Lederman, 8 rounds to 4.... bollocks. His defending of the judges and commenting how good and honest they were at the end of the fight seemed like a setup for what was to come with scoring. To be honest the fight looked a lot closer when listening to the HBO commentary, but I believe they were leading or misleading the audience or just being too pro Pacquiao.
I watched the original fight without sound as the speaker system had broken at the venue, which almost cause a riot.... But I'm glad now as I was going by what I saw and it was 8 to 4 Marquez with Marquez landing the hard clean shots. The place was full of Filipinos and you could have heard a pin drop, there was barely a cheer for Pacquiao the whole fight. Another thing with the replays between rounds. I think it was round 7 or 8 where Marquez landed a flurry of punches and on replay they showed Pac landing one shot on him and completely ignored that beautiful combination, happened in another round too, and there were instances where Marquez shots were just plain ignored by the commentators altogether.
I did see Marquez's face, sure did, but did you see Manny's at the end of the fight? That didn't look like a winners face and he looked sheepish when the results were read out. A black eye doesn't mean you win a boxing match. There were so many rounds where Pacquiao was given the benefit of the doubt and the edge, where there was none to give, at worst I call it 7 rounds to 5 for Marquez.
Marquez out boxed him definitely with Pacman unsure of which route to take for victory, he got Pacman to change his style, which is a compliment in itself. Marquez did what he does, brilliant technical counter punching with great timing.
No clue at all, tried to have Manny box a boxer. That's plain crazy or delusional on Freddy's part. I'm assuming its Freddy who has instructed him to box like that, as like I've said in a couple of posts already, Pac is not a boxer, he is a fighter and should be allowed to fight in his natural manner... quick flurries, overwhelming opponents and coming at angles, that's it..Then let the chips lay where they fall. If Freddy doesn't get it, then Pac needs to change trainers obviously.
If it's "rigged" there's an acceptable amount of rigging involved, especially if it favors the fighters we love. I've said for some time that the fighters we love are more than just about the sport of boxing to us, we grown to care for them as people.
You can't expect Manny to willfully lower his own stock by making such an admission, certainly it would be magnanimous, but from a marketing point of view it would be somewhat retarded. Manny and Floyd are businesses that employ alot of people; I know that is cold comfort for the avid boxing fan, but this how the sport we love goes sometimes.
If Manny had any "balls" he'd take control of his career from Bob Arum.
You can't care for someone you don't love and respect, and Pacquiao has lost a lot of love and respect after stating he won last night, he has already lost more from that fight then he could possibly gain by not being magnanimous. It wouldn't have be a retarded business decision to be truthful, his stocks would have soared in the minds of many of his supporters and attracted new ones. He should have said nothing or apologized.
If you want to be regarded as a great, like Ali, that's the type of balls you need, stand up for what's right but not necessarily popular with all the yes men and suits.
The people who have rigged this have made Pacquiao and Freddy look like world class chumps and cheaters. Bob Arum and the Gamblers are crooks and unfortunately for Pacquiao, guilt by association.. He should ditch Arum ASAP as you said. He lost me as a supporter last night and it will take a lot to get me back, definitely a poor business decision to accept a win by fraud in my opinion, I know many who feel the same way.
I think the old days of unlimited rounds now has a lot of merit... It's the only sure fire way of stopping corrupt judges, no way to win but by knocking the other guy out or your opponent quitting! Not going to happen i know ...
That is what needed to be said from him, yet of course, it wasn't. Or in fact, it was, just not in words.
Juan Manuel hurt Manny several times during the fight. Manny NEVER hurt Marquez.
Manny walked back to his corner a dejected man. Kneeled down, buried his face in his hands. He knew he'd lost. I honestly felt bad for him, then even more so when they lifted him up, paraded him around the ring. He felt ashamed.
The feeling of sympathy sort of vanished with his post-fight comments. A real fighter, an honest fighter, would tell his fans the truth. "I'm sorry, I lost the fight and the judges are either paid off or idiots." I mean, after all, he knew it himself.
Manny isn't an honest fighter. He's a politician.
Totally agree with your last sentiment. I was a fan of Pacquiao and Freddy but this has tarnished their reputations and all they have worked for. As they say it takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a minute to destroy it. This was an obviously corrupt decision and Manny shouldn't have said anything like "i won the fight", a disgrace. I don't know for sure who was in on what, I don't want to believe Freddy and Pac were, but someone was and the fighter and coach now look like chumps.
Floyd fights nothing like Marquez and using the triangle theory is one of the dumbest things you could ever do when analyzing a match up between two fighters.
I will repeat Floyd fights nothing like Marquez.
I agree Floyd fights nothing like Marquez, he's faster, has better reflexes, is better defensively, very rarely gets hit and it's even rarer to see him on the canvas. I don't even like Mayweather but boxing skill has nothing to do with likability.
I thought Pacquiao might have had a chance but his new fighting style is doing him no favors. He looked confused against Marquez, I could only imagine how confusing Mayweather would be for him. He stands a chance if he goes back to his natural game, if he doesn't Floyd wins 12 rounds to 0. I think Arum realizes that, here comes Marquez 4 or Tim Bradley?? Bradley, that's a joke, or should be..
Who the hell said pac was a technical boxer? Pac is fast as hell, crazy angles, ko power, crazy work rate, and unorthodox. I think his boxing is good, but only idiots would say that he wins because of his technical boxing skills.
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Well he had none of that on display, I think you completely misunderstood what I said. Freddy tried to have Pacman boxing technically, he isn't a boxer, he's a fighter. I'm a Pacman fan, the unpredictable dynomo Pacman who blasts the opponent, not the over thinking unsure of who he was fighter that appeared last night. Marquez is a boxer, Manny tried to box him not fight him. Manny looked second rate because that isn't his natural fighting style. Manny's previous fights with Marquez shows you what the contest can be like if both boxers use their natural fighting instincts, Manny blasting and Marquez countering, then we see who is the best come what may.
Mayweather v Manny isn't an interesting fight its a complete embarrassment for Manny if he continues to fight in that vein. And I'm not sure what you mean by "that's when he had the most success". That would imply he was doing something right, which he didn't, period. Marquez made him look ordinary and completely outclassed him in all aspects. Manny won 4 rounds maximum but more likely 2 or 3.
Marvin Hagler "Wake up people and realize that we can no longer tolerate corruption in our sport. There needs to be a primary governing body.
Hagler is spot on, its corruption pure and simple.. It's not only pro boxers who think Marquez won. Any one with eyes and a mind not deluded can see who won.
I agree, Freddy and his strategy was truly awful. He had Pacquiao trying to fight like a boxer when plainly he isn't... He's a fighter who comes forward aggressively, piles on the punches from all angles and overwhelms opponents, or he was that type of fighter. Don't know what the hell he was doing, but all credit to Marquez for scaring Pacquiao's camp into changing Manny's style, no way Manny would ever beat Marquez or any other technical boxer boxing. Marquez does have his number somewhat, but the fact remains Manny knocked him down numerous time previously fighting in his natural manner. If Manny fights his natural fight and isn't hemmed in by trying to box, then its all up for grabs and its a close call, unlike last night.
What do u guys think?
Try and give a valid reply... No crying and wining... Give me reason why u disagree... That should be easy since I'm "on drugs" or "retarded" right? I mean, what r the odds that u guys r the retards and thats why u can't see the signs
I think you pointed out your deficiencies very nicely above, no need for me to do that. U r delusional, to state that "Manny could have knocked him out whenever he wanted to"... Really what evidence do you have of that? With Pac missing the mark of his punches and consistently being out counter punched and cleanly hit by Marquez, they could fight 50 rounds and Pac would not have come close to doing what you stated he could do if he really wanted to??? I'm not going to waste my time with your other rants, they don't deserve even arguing..Marquez won, easily.
Agreed
Pac cant manhandle anybody unless he is shot or at a CW , Floyd schools him and smiles while he doing it at 147 , with Pac its not a physical fight , Floyd will do a boxing exhibition ala JMM .
I agree. I'm not a huge fan of Mayweather but he fought well tonight and so did Cotto. He clearly won the fight with Cotto and I don't think Pac has the goods to make it a contest. Floyd fought tonight inside and out and looked good, and was entertaining to boot. If he fought like that all the time he'd have a lot more fans. Too fast, too skillful, too long for Pac I'm afraid.
Now all I want to know is, who the hell is Mayweather? Is his persona for the camera, is it all just for the show, is it somewhere in between? And what the hell was with his last fight? He doesn't need cheap shots as he clearly demonstrated tonight, pound for pound, he's got skills.