Reality Check for Pac

I wasn't talking about Filipinos at ringside, I was speaking about the 1000 Filipinos at the Venue where I was out of 1100 people, without commentary, simply watching the fight unfold, not a sound... Don't take my word for it that Pacquiao fought better and was a better fighter previous, Larry Merchant's latest article talks all about it. His victories over Barerra, Morales and the first Marquez fight were his finest wins against true champions and tough boxers whose records stand the test of time. His latest triumphs have been thoroughly underwhelming with opposition on their way out, sideways or down. Pacquiao had such great potential but his new life as poster boy and potential President has robbed boxing of a great fighter. I think that's the most disappointing thing, he's so big and loved in the Philippines that the powers that be can't have him lose and can't have him take risks, a real shame. There's no need to fight again the score is 2 to 1 to Marquez, but if they do the result will be no different and the controversy will continue. As much as I dislike Floyd Mayweather, that fight ain't going to happen, Pacquiao will get creamed all the way to a 12 round decision, and now he knows it.. No overwhelming pressure on Floyd no way to win, he'll pick Pac to pieces. Before this fight I though he may have a chance but Marquez confirms the result of a Mayweather fight. I don't know who that leaves him to fight, nobody's i guess. It was a very tense, scary and disappointing fight for Pac fans. NO ONE expected it to be that close. That is the reason why even if a Pac fan thought Pac won, you will not see him cheering. Pac underperformed, that's clear. But it was enough to edge JMM out, IMO. Don't get me wrong either, like I said, Pac fought way too conservatively. But I am not about to say that he is not a better fighter than JMM 1 and Morales 1. His technical boxing progress is what got him to poster boy status. You think he would've beaten DLH, Cotto, Marg by brawling against them? Here is what I was talking about regarding circling left.

You're reason for saying that Pac's brawling style is better for him than his current more controlled style is the fact that he won and kd'd jmm in their first 2 fights. Thats silly. I scored it 7 rounds to 5 Pac. I don't know what fight you saw, but that place was dominated by JMM fans. They were LOUD from round 1. I did not hear a "Manny" once. I agree than JMM clearly landed the clearer more flush shots, but so did Clottey. You don't win rounds by getting your opponent with 1 or 2 great shots and eating 5-6. Pac was dissapointed because he failed to deliver a definitive win and KO not because he thought he lost the fight. The only damage JMM gave him was a busted lip and a headbutt. JMM's face was clearly tagged up from all the punches he took from Pac. It was not a robbery. It was a very close fight. Pac landed more punches and won more rounds. Again, there are plenty of threads to debate on who won the fight, this isn't one of them. I respect the opinions of people who thought JMM won a CLOSE fight. It wasn't a "boxing clinic" no one "outclassed" anyone. I gave it to Pac, you gave it to JMM. I hope they fight again. I wasn't talking about Filipinos at ringside, I was speaking about the 1000 Filipinos at the Venue where I was out of 1100 people, without commentary, simply watching the fight unfold, not a sound... Don't take my word for it that Pacquiao fought better and was a better fighter previous, Larry Merchant's latest article talks all about it. His victories over Barerra, Morales and the first Marquez fight were his finest wins against true champions and tough boxers whose records stand the test of time. His latest triumphs have been thoroughly underwhelming with opposition on their way out, sideways or down. Pacquiao had such great potential but his new life as poster boy and potential President has robbed boxing of a great fighter. I think that's the most disappointing thing, he's so big and loved in the Philippines that the powers that be can't have him lose and can't have him take risks, a real shame. There's no need to fight again the score is 2 to 1 to Marquez, but if they do the result will be no different and the controversy will continue. As much as I dislike Floyd Mayweather, that fight ain't going to happen, Pacquiao will get creamed all the way to a 12 round decision, and now he knows it.. No overwhelming pressure on Floyd no way to win, he'll pick Pac to pieces. Before this fight I though he may have a chance but Marquez confirms the result of a Mayweather fight. I don't know who that leaves him to fight, nobody's i guess.

OK, just rewatched the fight. No I'm not advocating he go back to being a one punch fighter, but having only lost to Morales but beating Barerra and drawing with Marquez before that fight he was doing pretty well as a loose canon... Was Manny a better fighter when he first fought Marquez? It looks that way because he won the first fight, knocked him down 4 times and only closely lost the second fight in my opinion. If he fought like that yesterday there was every possibility of taking Marquez out by being explosive and unpredictable, not by being careful. All the talk from Pacs corner was how this was going to be definitive with a knockout... I was hoping that Pacman was going to show up and teach Marquez a lesson, but it was the other way around. To be honest on replay the HBO broadcast and commentary seems highly biased, not to mention the pathetic scoring by Lederman, 8 rounds to 4.... bollocks. His defending of the judges and commenting how good and honest they were at the end of the fight seemed like a setup for what was to come with scoring. To be honest the fight looked a lot closer when listening to the HBO commentary, but I believe they were leading or misleading the audience or just being too pro Pacquiao. I watched the original fight without sound as the speaker system had broken at the venue, which almost cause a riot.... But I'm glad now as I was going by what I saw and it was 8 to 4 Marquez with Marquez landing the hard clean shots. The place was full of Filipinos and you could have heard a pin drop, there was barely a cheer for Pacquiao the whole fight. Another thing with the replays between rounds. I think it was round 7 or 8 where Marquez landed a flurry of punches and on replay they showed Pac landing one shot on him and completely ignored that beautiful combination, happened in another round too, and there were instances where Marquez shots were just plain ignored by the commentators altogether. I did see Marquez's face, sure did, but did you see Manny's at the end of the fight? That didn't look like a winners face and he looked sheepish when the results were read out. A black eye doesn't mean you win a boxing match. There were so many rounds where Pacquiao was given the benefit of the doubt and the edge, where there was none to give, at worst I call it 7 rounds to 5 for Marquez. Marquez out boxed him definitely with Pacman unsure of which route to take for victory, he got Pacman to change his style, which is a compliment in itself. Marquez did what he does, brilliant technical counter punching with great timing. You're reason for saying that Pac's brawling style is better for him than his current more controlled style is the fact that he won and kd'd jmm in their first 2 fights. Thats silly. I scored it 7 rounds to 5 Pac. I don't know what fight you saw, but that place was dominated by JMM fans. They were LOUD from round 1. I did not hear a "Manny" once. I agree than JMM clearly landed the clearer more flush shots, but so did Clottey. You don't win rounds by getting your opponent with 1 or 2 great shots and eating 5-6. Pac was dissapointed because he failed to deliver a definitive win and KO not because he thought he lost the fight. The only damage JMM gave him was a busted lip and a headbutt. JMM's face was clearly tagged up from all the punches he took from Pac. It was not a robbery. It was a very close fight. Pac landed more punches and won more rounds. Again, there are plenty of threads to debate on who won the fight, this isn't one of them. I respect the opinions of people who thought JMM won a CLOSE fight. It wasn't a "boxing clinic" no one "outclassed" anyone. I gave it to Pac, you gave it to JMM. I hope they fight again.

No chance Manny took this easy - Usually his camp make up these distractions that they are supposedly worried about in order to make the fight seem harder, but this time they said he was "the best he's ever been" etc and he has fought close fights with JMM before and stated he wanted to shut him up once and for all...he would have been at his most determined for this fight no doubt! It's not as if he was fighting a journeyman...then I would say he lost focus, but he was fighting his nemesis. We may have underestimated how JMM would perform but Manny and his team wouldn't, because they experienced frustration against him TWICE ALREADY!

Are you trying to say that pac was a better fighter when he was a straight up brawler??? ie morales 1 ? Are you kidding me?! Manny's natural speed and power with the technical boxing that he gained from Roach made him better. I do agree that Pac tried to outbox JMM too much, meaning he was way too conservative and cautious. But that doesn't mean that he should've gone full brawler mode instead. It should've been somewhere in the middle. Go watch the fight again and watch when Pac was moving to his right, JMM's left. that's when he was getting JMM and JMM was unable to counter since Pac would be almost behind him after. Then Pac's corner told him to keep doing that, but he didn't listen. Marquez outclassed Pac? Really? I respect your opinion if you think JMM won the CLOSE FIGHT. But to say that JMM outclassed Pac is plain retard! Did you see JMM's face after the fight? The DEFENSIVE fighter got hit more, that's why he lost. OK, just rewatched the fight. No I'm not advocating he go back to being a one punch fighter, but having only lost to Morales but beating Barerra and drawing with Marquez before that fight he was doing pretty well as a loose canon... Was Manny a better fighter when he first fought Marquez? It looks that way because he won the first fight, knocked him down 4 times and only closely lost the second fight in my opinion. If he fought like that yesterday there was every possibility of taking Marquez out by being explosive and unpredictable, not by being careful. All the talk from Pacs corner was how this was going to be definitive with a knockout... I was hoping that Pacman was going to show up and teach Marquez a lesson, but it was the other way around. To be honest on replay the HBO broadcast and commentary seems highly biased, not to mention the pathetic scoring by Lederman, 8 rounds to 4.... bollocks. His defending of the judges and commenting how good and honest they were at the end of the fight seemed like a setup for what was to come with scoring. To be honest the fight looked a lot closer when listening to the HBO commentary, but I believe they were leading or misleading the audience or just being too pro Pacquiao. I watched the original fight without sound as the speaker system had broken at the venue, which almost cause a riot.... But I'm glad now as I was going by what I saw and it was 8 to 4 Marquez with Marquez landing the hard clean shots. The place was full of Filipinos and you could have heard a pin drop, there was barely a cheer for Pacquiao the whole fight. Another thing with the replays between rounds. I think it was round 7 or 8 where Marquez landed a flurry of punches and on replay they showed Pac landing one shot on him and completely ignored that beautiful combination, happened in another round too, and there were instances where Marquez shots were just plain ignored by the commentators altogether. I did see Marquez's face, sure did, but did you see Manny's at the end of the fight? That didn't look like a winners face and he looked sheepish when the results were read out. A black eye doesn't mean you win a boxing match. There were so many rounds where Pacquiao was given the benefit of the doubt and the edge, where there was none to give, at worst I call it 7 rounds to 5 for Marquez. Marquez out boxed him definitely with Pacman unsure of which route to take for victory, he got Pacman to change his style, which is a compliment in itself. Marquez did what he does, brilliant technical counter punching with great timing.

If Pac didn't fight slow, plodding, over the hill, past prime fighters the last 3 years, I bet he wouldn't have felt like shit yesterday. And yes, he felt like shit. Look at his body language when the fight ended. Marquez raised his arm in absolute triumph, knowing that he finally beat his rival. Pacquiao looked dejected. When Pacquiao was put on one of his people's shoulders he looked ashamed. I would have had a load of respect for Pacquiao if he said that he may have lost or that he thought it was a draw but no, all he could say is that "I clearly won" during the post fight press conference. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not sure about the cherry picking part exactly. But man, Pac looked like his dawg just died after the fight.

Well he had none of that on display, I think you completely misunderstood what I said. Freddy tried to have Pacman boxing technically, he isn't a boxer, he's a fighter. I'm a Pacman fan, the unpredictable dynomo Pacman who blasts the opponent, not the over thinking unsure of who he was fighter that appeared last night. Marquez is a boxer, Manny tried to box him not fight him. Manny looked second rate because that isn't his natural fighting style. Manny's previous fights with Marquez shows you what the contest can be like if both boxers use their natural fighting instincts, Manny blasting and Marquez countering, then we see who is the best come what may. Mayweather v Manny isn't an interesting fight its a complete embarrassment for Manny if he continues to fight in that vein. And I'm not sure what you mean by "that's when he had the most success". That would imply he was doing something right, which he didn't, period. Marquez made him look ordinary and completely outclassed him in all aspects. Manny won 4 rounds maximum but more likely 2 or 3. Are you trying to say that pac was a better fighter when he was a straight up brawler??? ie morales 1 ? Are you kidding me?! Manny's natural speed and power with the technical boxing that he gained from Roach made him better. I do agree that Pac tried to outbox JMM too much, meaning he was way too conservative and cautious. But that doesn't mean that he should've gone full brawler mode instead. It should've been somewhere in the middle. Go watch the fight again and watch when Pac was moving to his right, JMM's left. that's when he was getting JMM and JMM was unable to counter since Pac would be almost behind him after. Then Pac's corner told him to keep doing that, but he didn't listen. Marquez outclassed Pac? Really? I respect your opinion if you think JMM won the CLOSE FIGHT. But to say that JMM outclassed Pac is plain retard! Did you see JMM's face after the fight? The DEFENSIVE fighter got hit more, that's why he lost.

Who the hell said pac was a technical boxer? Pac is fast as hell, crazy angles, ko power, crazy work rate, and unorthodox. I think his boxing is good, but only idiots would say that he wins because of his technical boxing skills. . Well he had none of that on display, I think you completely misunderstood what I said. Freddy tried to have Pacman boxing technically, he isn't a boxer, he's a fighter. I'm a Pacman fan, the unpredictable dynomo Pacman who blasts the opponent, not the over thinking unsure of who he was fighter that appeared last night. Marquez is a boxer, Manny tried to box him not fight him. Manny looked second rate because that isn't his natural fighting style. Manny's previous fights with Marquez shows you what the contest can be like if both boxers use their natural fighting instincts, Manny blasting and Marquez countering, then we see who is the best come what may. Mayweather v Manny isn't an interesting fight its a complete embarrassment for Manny if he continues to fight in that vein. And I'm not sure what you mean by "that's when he had the most success". That would imply he was doing something right, which he didn't, period. Marquez made him look ordinary and completely outclassed him in all aspects. Manny won 4 rounds maximum but more likely 2 or 3.

I agree with DempseyRoller. Roach making Manny a 'more' technical boxer actually made it easier for Marquez to beat him. His being inpredictable was what kept him somewhat afloat against his Achilles heel - JMM's Style.

I'm glad the fight went the way it did because Manny will adjust and Floyd is going to take the bait.

I've always told my friends that floyd is just waiting for pac to age a bit more, since when they are both older and slower, the more technically sound boxer will surely win. Once pac loses his speed, he will not beat floyd.

Sorry dude, but reality check for you too. After that effort last night Pac would be absolutely embarrassed and destroyed by Mayweather, his only chance is to start boxing like he use to... aggressive, angles and overwhelming opponents with speed. He aint no technical boxer, Freddy Roach has some explaining to do... Who the hell said pac was a technical boxer? Pac is fast as hell, crazy angles, ko power, crazy work rate, and unorthodox. I think his boxing is good, but only idiots would say that he wins because of his technical boxing skills. I still think pac has the best chance to beat floyd and vice versa. People want to see pac vs floyd because it would be an interesting match, and their styles are made for each other just like pac vs jmm. You can't compare their fights vs JMM though, fight triangles do not work. Having said that, pac and roach need a better game plan against floyd, and pac needs to remain in control the whole fight, i thought he got impatient in the middle rounds, and he didn't listen to his corner when they told him to circle him right instead of left. that's when he had his most success.

ppl werent againts marquez. they were against the fight. pac is supposed to be the top fighter in thw world, blowing these "bigger" guys outta the water. marquez was not a ww, struggled with both katsidis and diaz and he lost to mayweather. how is it possible that he still did that to the top fighter in the world? pacs team didnt expect it, the world didnt either. this is all on pac. I'm a huge Manny fan, but his last few performances were disappointments. His focus needs to be 100% on beating up his opponent. I think everyone myself included, put Manny up too high for him to have a crappy night and bad matchmaking. He's only human.

Pac won a very close fight. This is not a thread to debate who won the fight. But Im actually kinda glad that it was another war. In every sport, complacency is the downfall of all great athletes and teams. Pac has been steamrolling through competition for too long. He needed this close fight to remind him that hard work and good preparation are what will win the megafights (floyd). I hope Pac and his camp realizes that he doesn't automatically win just because he is the better athlete, fighter, etc. This is why we love sports. Sorry dude, but reality check for you too. After that effort last night Pac would be absolutely embarrassed and destroyed by Mayweather, his only chance is to start boxing like he use to... aggressive, angles and overwhelming opponents with speed. He aint no technical boxer, Freddy Roach has some explaining to do...

The reason why people were against Marquez is his weight. Manny was fighting bigger dudes and Juan's performance against Floyd @ WW (catchweight). Manny and Juan are the same size. ppl werent againts marquez. they were against the fight. pac is supposed to be the top fighter in thw world, blowing these "bigger" guys outta the water. marquez was not a ww, struggled with both katsidis and diaz and he lost to mayweather. how is it possible that he still did that to the top fighter in the world? pacs team didnt expect it, the world didnt either. this is all on pac.

JMM is still solid but we didn't know it, and nor did Pacquiao's team, which is precisely the reason why they picked that fight. The reason why people were against Marquez is his weight. Manny was fighting bigger dudes and Juan's performance against Floyd @ WW (catchweight). Manny and Juan are the same size.

Bro, JMM is not cherry-picking. He is solid and you know it. The reality check for Manny is after the fight and everyone was booing him. He looked as if his feelings were hurt. Ouch! JMM is still solid but we didn't know it, and nor did Pacquiao's team, which is precisely the reason why they picked that fight.

I do agree with that it was another waking up call for Pac just like the Morales fight. Yes, he was dedicated during training but i always felt that all the victories since Morales got it into his head.

Bro, JMM is not cherry-picking. He is solid and you know it. The reality check for Manny is after the fight and everyone was booing him. He looked as if his feelings were hurt. Ouch!If Pac didn't fight slow, plodding, over the hill, past prime fighters the last 3 years, I bet he wouldn't have felt like shit yesterday. And yes, he felt like shit. Look at his body language when the fight ended. Marquez raised his arm in absolute triumph, knowing that he finally beat his rival. Pacquiao looked dejected. When Pacquiao was put on one of his people's shoulders he looked ashamed. I would have had a load of respect for Pacquiao if he said that he may have lost or that he thought it was a draw but no, all he could say is that "I clearly won" during the post fight press conference.

Pac won a very close fight. This is not a thread to debate who won the fight. But Im actually kinda glad that it was another war. In every sport, complacency is the downfall of all great athletes and teams. Pac has been steamrolling through competition for too long. He needed this close fight to remind him that hard work and good preparation are what will win the megafights (floyd). I hope Pac and his camp realizes that he doesn't automatically win just because he is the better athlete, fighter, etc. This is why we love sports. I totally agree. I hope this truly wakes him up. He needs to return that Ferrari. He also needs to quit his job as a Congressman. He can still change things being a civilian. He needs to being back the mentality of pre-DLH. I truly think at that stage he was focused and executed game plan. He really thought he was gonna go in there with Juan and steamroll him. I just hope he can bounce back from this.