According to many peoples' logic on this forum, if the last blow of the fight was a Ward kick to Kovalev's face instead of a punch to the groin, the stoppage would still be completely justified because Kovalev was apparently done.
Ward's held plenty in the past. That's a huge part of his inside game. He has a long history of this. Kovalev doesn't. Ward was the one initiating the vast majority of the holds. Please explain to me how a fighter can initiate a headlock on an opponent. All Kovalev was doing was protecting himself from the top of Ward's head busting up his face like Kessler's. Ward jabs, comes in low with the top of his head and raises up under his opponents chin looking to inflict damage. Kovalev asked the ref to pay attention to this before the fight happened.
I respect that. But at the same time, Lara has the same MW resume as Canelo and fought him to basically a draw that went to the A-side fighter.
So I think it's still a credible fight despite him not campaigning at 160.
But we're on the same page. We're both demanding more competitive fights.
Yes. And after the mandatory against Wade they have to make something big. Realistically, the only way Lara appeals to GGG/HBO is if he establishes himself as a force at MW. Ideally by grabbing a belt. We haven't heard anything from Lara in a while and Jacobs is right there. Why not make the fight and force a mandatory with GGG? An impressive win over Jacobs or any other MW contender would put Lara on the GGG radar. The problem is that when Lara's had the big stage, he hasn't proven to be an entertaining fighter to most fans consequently he's not a draw as I'm sure you already know. The shame is that he has the talent but seems to fight safe and lacks a killer instinct. I think back to the Rodriguez fight where even his corner was imploring him to put his opponent away the last few rounds. Instead, Lara played it safe on the outside as he was far ahead on the cards. He has good power and all the tools. If he just had the desire to finish, he'd be a much more marketable fighter.
What the hell has Wade done at Middleweight? He has never even fought at MW
He's put himself in position as a MANDATORY to one of GGG's MIDDLEWEIGHT belts. Lara can accomplish this in one fight...Yet he doesn't seem to be pushing for it.
And from the report on the weigh-in for Wade's last fight...
"Wade, who’ll take on the toughest opponent of his career when he steps up in class to face the vastly more experienced former world champion Soliman, also came in heavy. He weighed 162.5 pounds on his first attempt. When he returned to the scale, he weighed 161 pounds. Soliman, tipped the scale at 161.4 pounds, on his first attempt."
That's not what Isaac Clarke said. He said Canelo's resume is better than GGG's which in theory, as Clarke had stated, that many thought Lara won - cause you know in boxing there's also a ''point system'' - all means that a Lara vs GGG is completely justifiable.
What's funny is all Lara haters, including Abel, said that nobody knows who Lara is and that he's 154 and there's no reason for GGG to fight him... now the news is that Lara is moving to 160, which the inevitable suggests a collision course of this fight...
Lara fought differently against Nelo than he did with Angulo.
The MW door has been wide open for quite a while now. A Jacobs fight would have been and still would be really easy to make. Why isn't he pushing for a fight with Jacobs? Or any other MW for that matter? Truth is he's not a draw at all and he's making over $1 million a fight against guys like Rodriguez and Zaveck. How much will he want to fight GGG considering the fact he brings no fans? The least he could do is show up at a GGG press conference and call him out in person. Instead he tweets....
I really hope he moves up and puts his $ where his mouth is. Can't wait to see his resume get in the ring with GGG's resume. The aftermath on this board will be priceless.
Dominic Wade is being criticized for being confident going into this fight.
Andre Ward is criticized for wanting to fight GGG
Erislandy Lara gets criticized for wanting to fight GGG
So by that you would think fighters that don't want to fight GGG should be praised, right? But no...Sauners, Jacobs, Quillin, Martinez, Cotto and Canelo are scared duckers.
So as a fan....what do you want and why are you *****ing?
Wade should be praised for wanting and taking the fight. He can talk all he wants to build up his confidence, but his comments regarding GGG seem a little disrespectful. At least they add a level of interest to the fight. We'll see how confident he is on fight night...
Even though GGG's clearly the smaller fighter, Ward should be praised for wanting the fight. He shouldn't get praise, however, for being inactive then wanting the GGG fight all on his terms. He had plenty of time get back in the ring and build the fight. He also had plenty of time to send an offer to GGG but waited too long --they'd just made the Lemieux fight and were on a path to unification with the Canelo/Cotto winner. GGG's camp turned the offer down quickly for obvious reasons then Ward and RocN ran to the press with it. Seemed like a lame publicity stunt.
Who says Lara wants the fight? The problem is he's done nothing to get the fight. NOTHING. In just one fight with Jacobs (or maybe Saunders) he could put himself in a position to get GGG. Jacobs is available so why isn't Lara pursuing that fight? Tweets are BS. DeCubas knows Loeffler. Loeffler says they've never contacted him. From GGG's perspective Lara's not a MW and he isn't a draw.
So, basically one fighter's disrespecting GGG, a second much bigger fighter wanted a long term commitment from GGG all on his terms, and a third fighter says he wants GGG but does nothing to get the fight. It's not the "wanting" part that's worthy of criticism here.
Lara can show sincerity moving up by simply fighting a nobody at middleweight, not a cab driver after another. The last one of which was a blown up welterweight. It's an insult to people's intelligence when you're claiming to want 3G, yet don't even have any desire to make fights leading to a 3G fight. Fights with zero issues in them.
Claiming to be somebody without backing it up with action is meaningless.
He can actually skip the scrubs and fight Jacobs. Both Haymon fighters. If not, go for a Saunders fight. Either way you'll be near the top of the GGG list. Right now he's fighting scrubs in his own weight class. Cotto is the only move forward for him down there. He can carry the weight at middle easily. He needs to move up. Expecting to get GGG in his first MW fight is BS from him and his fans.
if you followed the conversations throughout this thread you might realize that some of us like to educate double standard scenarios, not hypothesis, no, we just described Lara's call out in a post press conference after Canelo beat Angulo. but that never happened, nor have fighters ever called each other out at press conferences or ring side... no!!
We have promoters for that, right? I don't know what you're on about mate.
Yes there are promoters. The problem is Lara's promoter is doing nothing more than posting tweets. That's not how serious negotiations are started.
What double standard are you referring to in my original comment? I made the point that if Lara was serious about a GGG fight he should move up and grab a MW strap. Fight Jacobs. Or at the very least do something more than tweet...actually contact GGG's team or show up at a press conference like he did when he wanted the Canelo fight. He's not done any of these things which shows me he's not serious about wanting to fight Gennady.
Ward and GGG met with HBO a couple of years ago. GGG says he's ready, Ward say he's not. HBO says okay let's build the fight. Over the next 2 years, GGG knocks out six MW contenders in front of sold out arenas and puts himself in a mandatory position to fight for WBC (and lineal) title against one of the biggest PPV fighters in boxing. In the meantime, Ward KO's a top 30ish fighter in Paul Smith at 172 on BET. Two years later when GGG and his team are asked what will it take to make a Ward fight, they say we will meet in the middle -- 50/50 at 164. Ward says no can do then waits OVER TWO MONTHS before sending GGG an offer in an email all on his terms - 50/50 at 168. K2 gets the offer after they had signed on for the Lemieux fight with the Cotto/Canelo winner on deck. They quickly decline. Ward and RocN run to the press claiming GGG's ducking. GGG's team responds that it would've been stupid for GGG to lock himself into a long term commitment with Ward who needed a couple of tuneups when Golovkin has a chance to gain the WBC belt in a big PPV fight in his own division. These are all indisputable facts.
While Hopkins has been nearly as inactive as Ward, his last fight was against a significantly better opponent than Paul Smith. He’s also a LHW so 168 would be meeting in the middle just like 164 would’ve been for Ward. Again just the facts…
The way I see it, Ward missed the GGG boat because he didn’t put in the work. The contract Ward sent to GGG last year had the two fighting in the fall of this year. In hindsight, I’d say GGG made the right call in passing.
According to Loeffler they do have to show up at GGG fights and confront him
We could only hope that another Middleweight World Champion came in ring to call out @GGGBoxing the way Fury did with Wilder, #levels— Tom Loeffler (@TomLoeffler1) January 17, 2016
So, you're interpreting "we can only hope that" to mean "we will do nothing but wait until"...So, Loeffler's not contacted any of the other MW champions' teams. Not talked to Canelo's team or Saunders' team?
GGG would drop everything in a second and drain himself down to 154 as soon as the contract was signed. While Floyd will talk crap about Golovkin's skills and never step in the ring with GGG. That's all anyone needs to know.
you mean the way he did with Canelo? GGG could've done the same with Alvarez at the Cotto conference too...
ironic innit. stunts like that wanting the WBC Lineal is unheard of doe, GGG too humble doe innit
Huh? GGG doesn't have to show up at a potential opponent's event. He actually has his promoter contact them so they can conduct business. Or are you suggesting there have been no negotiations between K2 and Golden Boy? Lara and his crew have not made one single attempt to contact K2. DeCubas knows Loeffler. Strange how he can't seem to find Tom's phone #. Anyway, here's the phone # for K2 promotions...310.399.2101...took me 6 seconds to find it. Maybe you can pass it along to them.
That's the problem dude. Canelo and Billy Hoe Saunders don't want to fight him. Jacobs doesn't want to fight him.
Lara is the best fighter available who wants to fight him. But for some reason you feel threatened by that and go out of your way to discredit him.
I'd agree. And I'd like to see it if those other fights fall through. But Lara's got to do something to get it. At least fight a contender at MW. If he was trying to negotiate a Jacobs fight, there'd be real indication of intent. I don't consider a tweet every so often such an indication.
I have a feeling that if GGG can't get a unification or a Jacobs fight, he's going to be looking north not south. Don't know all the politics behind the chatter of the Hopkins possibility, but I'd much rather see a fight against a Lara who's beaten a real solid MW in impressive fashion.
My man, I'm well aware of the "business side" of boxing. If GGG wants to sit around at 160 fighting guys who aren't good fighters and collect belts that hold no weight, he should do that. If he wants to hold out on other guys and only go for PPV money with guys like Canelo and Chavez Jr, that's fine. I just think NSB needs to address this situation the way it's actually playing out. Stop saying GGG is the most feared, stop saying it's other guys fault that certain fights arent happening, stop saying that GGG is the #1 P4P in the world. GGG is a talented fighter solely interested in achieving stardom and money, nothing wrong with that.
Well, that's simply YOUR perspective. Just a grand hypothesis about what you believe GGG thinks or wants based on your opinions or your reaction to other opinions. For example, you think belts are worthless. I disagree. And so does GGG. Individual belts may not mean much but unification is extremely valuable. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts in this case. And in the long term whether you look at it from a legacy perspective or a business perspective unification is valuable and important. Maybe if GGG was 4 or 5 years younger it'd be more obvious, but he knows better than anyone else how much he has in the tank and I bet he feels like he’s got several good years left. He's a mature, natural MW with no problems making 160 — he can sit there for the rest of his career if he wants and everyone at MW and growing into MW will have to go through him unless they are content to not only never fight for a championship but never become a mandatory for a belt. It’s purely a hedge and a very smart investment — if GGG never becomes a big PPV star, which is fairly likely even if he beats Canelo, he needs some leverage to get guys into the ring. He’s having a hard time right now because he’s not worth the risk. Other champs are asking for catchweights or crazy money. If he holds all those belts, there are no more ridiculous demands. He won’t have to chase them, they’ll all have to come to him.
Fans trolling on here claiming GGG is the most-feared is what it is. It has nothing to do with the fighter himself who never makes the claim and is humble and respectful to all other fighters. People shouldn’t twist facts about GGG to build a case against idiots who support a cult myth. It’s obviously just a marketing gimmick that’s been around boxing ever since I can remember. There are plenty of fighters willing to face GGG but as you know they all have their price, and for a lot of them, it’s way too high. For example, why would GGG pursue a fight with Lara who holds no MW title and brings no fans? Lara’s made over $1 million a fight in his last two against scrubs like Rodriguez and Zaveck. What’s he going to want to make the GGG fight happen? What does GGG’s team need to offer Lara just to get his name on the resume? The fact that Lara’s not negotiating a fight with Jacobs, or that DeCubas knows Loeffler and Loeffler hasn’t received any communication from Lara’s camp says everything you need to know about how much Lara wants the fight. Yet somehow GGG’s held responsible for that fight not happening. That fight isn’t happening because of Lara. End of story. If you want to go into other negotiations I will, but to suggest that GGG is preventing fights like these from happening is BS.
Any rank of GGG in the top 10 P4P is purely based on speculation at this point. I understand if people want to see him against tougher competition first. I’d say he’s beaten the **** out of enough contenders to at least substantiate some enthusiasm.
I don’t think Golovkin is thinking purely about stardom and money. I think legacy is very important to him and unification is a big part of that. He’s seems like a pretty straightforward guy. People on this forum need to separate what he says from what fans say and to some extent even what his team says. I wish he would give more interviews in Russian where he’s much more candid instead of giving canned answers in broken English.
I want to see him get the big fights as much as anyone and as a fight fan it’s hard to be patient and accept things like the mandatory against Wade. But GGG’s not going anywhere for the next few years, he seems patient in the ring so I’d assume he’s patient in general. The next year or so should be quite revealing.
Best defensive fighter of our era and never been dropped, Lil G aint knocking Mayweather out with glancing shots he'd need to land proper leather and he can't touch what he can't catch. As for those that want to compare Lil G to Maidana, you DKSAB, Lil G can't fight and rough house on the inside like Maidana, he needs space to get his punches off, watch his fights FFS.
What fight were you watching where GGG couldn't get his punches off on the inside? Maidana's put on some significant weight -- maybe he can make 160 and take GGG to school on the inside? As for Mayweather, he's going to have to run for every second of all 12 rounds under constant pressure against one of the hardest, most intelligent and most accurate punchers in boxing. GGG's timing is pretty good. He may miss a lot but eventually he'll connect. Easy work? I don't think Mayweather's going to give him a shot...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-49N-AffUTvk/VPYYW5YT1LI/AAAAAAAAB98/Lt_dovZ3TLg/s1600/cryingkid1.gif
vs:
-Kessler (L, Golovkin doesn't one-punch guys at even 160, Kessler schools him)
-Ward (L, Golovkin doesn't one punch guys at even 160, Ward roughs him up)
-Froch (L, Golovkin doesn't one-punch guys at even 160, granite jaw and long)
-Dirrell (?, Dirrell is a physical nightmare for Golovkin, while also being a full-on 168lber; does the chin hold up?)
-Abraham (?, Golovkin sees a mirror of himself, with Abraham having the punch)
GGG's already done well against Dirrell in the ams with headgear where his power wasn't as much of a factor. Wasn't much of a nightmare for GGG back then. What's changed?
And, except for the heavy hands, Abraham and GGG are NOTHING alike.
I think GGG will win, that being said, Lara is 10 times better than anyone GGG has ever fought. Lara will be a great scalp for GGG's resume and something that you clowns can hold onto as a legitmate win for his embaressing career.
If Lara wants the fight, Lara can make it happen pretty quickly and easily. The problem is many here don't seem to believe GGG when he says he wants to unify and will only fight outside MW for PPV fights. Not sure why as he's been walking the talk for a couple of years now. In the short term, GGG is not concerned about his resume. He wants all the MW belts and/or big $$$ fights. I doubt he's reading these forums thinking to himself he needs to schedule a fight with a guy who's not a draw and turned his one PPV shot into a snoozefest just to satisfy a handful of critics who spend way too much time sitting at their computers debating fighter resumes and lamenting the business side of boxing.
Willie Monroe silly YouTube video is a lot more convincing than I tweet written in English when Lara speaks Spanish. Do I have upload the clip where Lara manager says they never made any attempts to make the fight? He says it right out his mouth.
You resorting to calling me names but if you use your intelligence and common sense you'll see it for what it is. But I'm going to assume threw those out the door long ago.
But I grow tired I this conversation, Please stop spam the forum with these silly GGG vs Lara or Ward threads.
These are like The Great Tar Pits of boxing topics around here. I should know better by now not to wade into them but for some reason I usually do. Lara's next move will be telling. Seems to me the only thing keeping him at JMW is a potential fight with Cotto. Hopefully, we'll hear something soon. I have a hard time seeing GGG asking him to come up. If Lara wants the fight he'll likely have to make some noise at MW.
Ward is motivated and he's got a chip on his shoulder here. Unless he gets caught with a lucky shot, I think Ward will pitch a shutout. Barrera looks too slow and sloppy to me to do anything against a technician like Ward. Wide punches, messy footwork, etc.... He is big but that's about it. Unless Abel's transformed him since his last fight, I can see this being a replay of the Rodriguez fight. Especially, iif he can't manage to land something big. Andre will fight in and out and frustrate him with his timing and speed. Definitely a step up from Paul Smith though. Looking forward to seeing Andre back in the ring.
If they fight next, I'll pick Eubank in a war. If they fight a year from now, Eubank easy.
Personally I'd rather see them not fight one another and instead both be fed to Golovkin. Feed Danny to Golovkin now, let Chris fatten up and feed him to Golovkin in another year.
Jacobs getting madly overrated for catching Quillin early.
YES. Jacobs will never be more highly regarded than he is now. If he fights GGG soon, it will be amazing how quickly he becomes a bum who landed a lucky punch on Quillin.
Golovkin doesn't do well when not given the space to deliver his shots from midrange, let alone when he has to go backward, and Eubank refused to fight from range for most of today's fight.
You add that Eubank Jr seems to have inherited his old man's chin, and I think your mis-imagining the fight outcome.
So, Eubank Jr. controls the distance in the fight? Riiiiiiiight. Just for fun...when has GGG come out the worse for wear fighting on the inside? And who's had success backing him up?...A few seconds in the middle of the Stevens fight? GGG ate those shots like they were nothing.
Anyway, very much looking forward to English and his boy getting a shot. Whatever the outcome, the aftermath will be priceless.
Never said that Eubank Jr has to control the distance; simply pointing out that Eubank Jr can punch, Eubank Jr can fight from range, in-close, and off the back foot, and that Eubank Jr would walk into any such fight as the taller man, longer man, and the physically bigger man.
Gabriel Rosado, in his debut fight at middleweight, had plenty of success against Gennady Golovkin when he sat and fought; Golovkin had the blood and swelling on both eyes to show it. Ignore that reality if you want.
K2 will continue with the kid gloves on Golovkin, refusing to step in with anyone primed to expose the hype, until Golovkin can at least lock away one major payday for K2.
Golovkin's frequently been the smaller MW in in the ring. I don't see much of an advantage here. If you're implying Eubank Jr will give him problems at any distance no matter what style, I will confidently disagree. Regardless, I'd love to see Jr strike a pose in front of GGG.
BTW - the reality you shouldn't be ignoring is the fact that Golovkin was recovering from the flu in the Rosado fight. And, that Gabe's face looked quite a bit worse than Gennady's when his corner stopped it.
Canelo knows at this point in time 155 is the min weight he can drop to that allows him to geback into the ring and have the maximum size advantage possible without being drained. It's his biggest advantage. If he could make 154, he'd be fighting there instead. That's how precise it is. So, whether it's going down to fight naturally smaller guys like Cotto or draining a true MW like GGG, it will work heavily in his favor. He won't be able to maintain this forever, though. I doubt many guys could rehydrate as much as Canelo and still look sharp on fight night. The advantage of youth I suppose.
What kind of weird logic is this? A 'casual' fan (presumably less informed, keeps up with boxing news less, watches less boxing features) could pronounce his name, but a 'hardcore' fan (presumably more informed, listens/watches/reads boxing news, YouTube videos, boxing features) couldn't pronounce his name?
How does that make any sense?
Honestly, there's a lot of retarded reasoning amongst boxing fans (especially that lots of money = skill or greatness) which just isn't seen amongst other sports fans (ie, Leicester City's team = £23 mil, Man City's = £234 mil, LCFC just beat MCFC 3 - 1, but from the financials a boxing fan would say MCFC won).
I've also noticed boxing fans are less liable to read longer, wordier posts like this one, and ignore anyone who exposes their hypocrisy and idiocy. They seem to enjoy their bubbles.
Pretty much. And, it'll only seem worse the longer you spend here. If you're looking for well-reasoned debate this ain't the place.
Yeah had to get that 50-50 split agreed to up front for a fight "sometime" lol
Anyone with an IQ over 80 should be able to see right through that dumb sh*t.
Probably why so many Ward "fans" believe it was a legit offer
There are a couple of different things going on here.
One, Ward's offer was a BS offer. Just as GGG's suggestion of 164 was not going to happen, it was dead on arrival. Surprised it took K2 all of 36 minutes to reject as RocN proudly claimed. So, either Ward/RocN are delusional in thinking they would get GGG to lock himself into a year long commitment possibly passing up a PPV w/ Cotto or Canelo to give Ward (who'd had one tune up in front of 300k on BET in nearly 2 years) a big weight advantage and half the purse. OR Ward's camp simply put it out knowing it'd be quickly rejected then they could talk about those "emails" in the press and use it to disparage GGG.
The second thing is that Ward would sign to fight GGG in a second with 2 or 3 tune ups of course. Why?…because Golovkin’s done all the groundwork to build the fight. And, he’s Ward’s quickest route to rebuilding his brand and making $$$. Fighting with a 10lb weight advantage would be a plus for Ward as well.
This is a very good question--the right question. I should probably keep this to myself, but what's life without knowledge? In Golovkin's case, it's a mixture of genetics and technique. Besides your brain, the most important assets in boxing are your legs. Everything starts from there, and, with practice, fists are merely delivery vessels. Golovkin has strong legs and uses them for leverage accurately.
Also, if you notice, he curves his wrists as he throws shots. That enables you to deliver them more naturally, impacting with the most power possible. If you're doing it right, you're basically just letting your punch go from your shoulder, without even focusing on power, and yet it hits with power because of your legs. And, as they're released, your shots should go down toward the center of your body, because that's where it's strongest.
It made a huge difference for me, and I had thought for years that I had punching figured out, by nature and whatnot. I was wrong. Technique can make all the difference.
This is the right answer. And because he shuffles his feet and keeps them wide, he's always in position to deliver power. It all starts from the ground up. If you could measure the lateral forces generated by his feet on the canvas as he throws a punch, you'd see where the power comes from. Combine great footwork and a strong base with a powerful torso and heavy arms that deliver punches with a high level of accuracy, timing and coordination and you have GGG.
Not worth speculating on at this point. He doesn't even get the fantasy fight in my book because I don't think we've seen the best of him as a fighter. He needs to fight better competition before you can even make an educated guess. The best you can say is no one's looked better at MW against the level of comp GGG's faced so far. That's reason to be optimistic, but not reason to be convinced he can compete with any of these guys especially on a P4P level. It's pretty wild speculation at this point. Probably best to pose this question about 2 or 3 years from now. I'd at least say he's not going to be a walk in the park for anyone around his weight class.