a few fighters have left Roach lately not because he is less knowledgeable but because he has slowed down considerably in the last few years. He wanted Manny to stay as the old Manny but that's not the case anymore. Roach is old skool doesn't believe in strength training, this fight Pac didn't have Roach and he was free to strength train with Fortune. What happened? domination and a big KO.... The game has passed Roach by its not his fault it just happens to all great trainers.
TS have you ever considered that its possible that 20+ years of being punched in the face in most cases, leads to considerable scar tissue and dense robust bone build up (like hand calasis). This is common among many proffesional and even some amatuer boxers. Keep looking through pictures from Joe Frazier, to Ricky Hatton, to Tim Bradley....what you're talking about here is nothing more than scar tissue beneath the skin particularly around the nose, eye brows, and cheeks to prevent cuts and bruises, which makes the eyes appear closer together than they would have had they not boxed all their lives.
The slopping forehead is partially because the bone on the front of the skull becoming thicker; Larger sloped foreheads as well as strong jawlines and large noses are characteristics of aggresive alpha male athletic types (think lebron james) and criminals, both of which fit the bill of a typical boxer.
Sorry TS I'm positive 90% of guys in combat sports do use PED's but your way off the mark with your reasoning of the tell tale signs.
the difference with Pac seems that he accepts it as a part of the sport and that he truely believes the knock out was his own fault and that he made a mistake and accepts that mistake, not that JMM did anything to knock him out.
With Roy Jones, he had never been barely hit clean, hes been knocked out multiple since and ive never heard him once mention or acknoledge the knock out's, he pretends like it didnt even happen hence he keeps fighting.
i think this is difference in mentality that allows one fighter to bounce back from a KO, where as an other can never recover mentaly. So if my theory is right Pacman should be okay mentaly and physically. MMA fighters are better at accepting it as part of the sport.
What I don't understand is, why do some people care so passionately if its 50/50 or 60/40 etc.
Its not like Floyd going to be putting food on your table and feeding your kids if he gets 50/50 or 60/40 or whatever. End of the day him and Arum are just greedy mofo's and thats the bottom line. Maybe jail might have him thinking differently when he gets out.
AB4Life - any regrets about not going pro.....not any regrets in the sense that "oh i would of been a world champion had I gone pro" or anything like that..... being realistic maybe 1-5% of pro's, if that, make a decent living (compared to the risks and damage they take)..... but i do always think about what it would of been like to have had at least one pro fight, just for that "bucket list" experience.
Trained and fought amatuer for about 12 years, won every major tourny in my province including golden gloves, was a member of the provincial team and fought at the national level and olympic qualifier level. Along the way was offered a pro contract but didnt take it, was a little young at the time. Gave up boxing to go to university.
I gotta say looking back now 13 or so years later, best thing I ever could of done was box, gave me confidence in all other areas of my life. Discipline, fitness, public speaking, setting and achieving goals etc. Also made me prove myself on the street and at the bar every weekend (I come from a small town that has "some" racist undertones :boxing:)
As for my style, i was a counter puncher/boxer, worked behind a long jab, started at 140lbs last fight was at 170lbs and im 6'3. I had really good footwork and could punch off the back foot well, which would get me out of trouble.
I've done my best to keep boxing alive in my circle of friends, I always host the fight nights and keep everyone up to date on the latest boxing news. But I do feel embarassed and have a hard time defending the sport when decisions like the one we witnessed this past weekend happen. I agree it takes major balls for anyone to get in the ring and get punched in the face for the whole world to see, I have nothing but resect for all fighters.
I actually thought the entire broadcast team was a bit off.....almost like there was a tension between them all. Merchant was very negative and Lampley wasnt having any of it.
My theory is that they have pretty much told Merchant that he will not be doing the super fights or PPV fights anymore after the whole Floyd thing. Max is prolly going to be taking over. Merchant being the grumpy old man that he is might of made a big deal out of it and there is tension between the HBO broadcast team now. The telling comment for me was when Lampley made a point of reading out Max's text message to him....there was like a 10 second pause after that and Merchant finally formulated the thought "is max's p4p list the official list?" and Lampley owned him right after saying something like "No but its a credible one....is anyone's p4p list the official list?" or something along those lines.
Again just my opinion......i really dont see any reason to be hating on Sergio that much, he's a champion, hes charismatic, and im sure he's like the ODH of Argentina, overall good for boxing.
Guess we will find out if Max does the Pac fight and the Floyd fight.
Roids started getting big in the early 80's in body building and other sports, as for boxing, back then there were not alot of designer roids like there were in the 90's and now. Most of the juice back then gave you size and strength which would be deterimental to WW size guys, but im sure they were coked out back then.
In my opinion, every major heavyweight of the 80's, 90's even 2000's with the expection of Forman and Ruiz were probably juicing. Now this is not to say they juiced during training camp which i think most of the heavyweights did, but they were juicing at some point to get that size. When designer PED's became more popular in the 90's and 00's then the WW etc. could juice and still keep their weight low. Even RJJ was cranking, no way he got up to HW without it. Mosley, Oscar are two other big names.
Currently, my guess is guys do not juice during training camp because of all the testing, but it is often used for "healing" in between fights. Personally i think even when Floyd took his hiatus from the sport, there is a very good chance he was doing some "healing".
Often, just like in politics, the guy that is making the most noise about an issue, is usually guilty himself. Peterson is a fine example of this, in his case knowingly or not since he wanted the testing in the first place.
Mr Larryx not sure if it pro cotto or against him, he's a great fighter I commend him for not taking the softer touch but it was the wrong move. He's had dome wars and a couple breakdowns no one would blame him for taking a softer touch on a non PvP card.
ruminants you are probably hinting that he shouldn't get credit for Floyd fight, I think he should get full credit its universally agreed he put up the most respectable effort since Oscar.
shoulder roll good point about k9 having a belt going into PvP fight against canelo is obviously important for negotiations and purse and selling point, so k9 would have been perfect option
Yea because the only way to watch a fight is thru HBO.
U can easily watch a fight in full HD 2 hours after the fight ends
I think their marketing people have considered all the angles and probably figured out that its not a big difference in ppv buys. They only recently starting re-airing the fight, a little while ago they used to offer it again as a ppv fight replay which you would have to pay for. So I figure that probably wasnt very profitable at all to do so they stopped that all together and started offering it one week later as a free replay.
With the way they are marketing the boxing brand at HBO this makes the most sense to do, as you not only cater to an audience that may not have seen the fight live and may order the next one, but you also get to provide an indepth analysis one week later for the boxing fans out there. Thru mediums like the fight game. I think HBO is doing great things with the boxing and their telecast's now including and really updated the product and providing access to alot more boxing news and information.
Sorry for the long answer, but short answer, no it probably doesnt put a dent in their ppv profits as most fans prefer to watch live, and bar, pubs, theaters etc. buy licenses for ppv as well. If they lost money they wouldnt be doing it.
Science and knowledge, basically early forms of steroids were more for gaining muscle mass and strength. Just like the perception that strength training (lifting weights etc.) is bad for boxers, then by logic so to would be steroids.
But as steroids evolved, EPO, blood doping, different types of steroids that are for speed or strength without weight gain and side effects, so does knowledge of how the human body reacts to new training methods etc.
Some old skool trainers, Freddie Roach for instance, still down play the strength training coaches as crucial to a boxers regimen but as we all know now to the modern boxer, strength and conditioning is just important as the boxing skill set.
So in my opinion, its not that steroids werent there, and maybe some heavy's who werent worried as much about making weight did take them..... but the majority of steroids avaiable and the knowledge of those drugs were seen as counter productive to the goals of a boxer. With that being said, I think its pretty safe to assume a large majority of modern boxers are cranking, especially with the lack of reasonable testing out there.
Roughs him up first half, hope to catch him second half
I think Canelo's plan is to leans and rough up and bang Floyd to body in first half, hope Floyd slows a bit and then let his power take over in second half to catch Floyd with something...
I agree with this statement "Guys like Malignagii, Mayorga, Hopkins and Toney are GREAT for boxing they talk s**t and they are entertaining as hell".
I would only add this to the statement though: "Guys like Malignagii, Mayorga, Hopkins and Toney are GREAT for boxing they talk s**t and they are entertaining as hell because they are willing to fight anyone and everyone.
Mayweather maybe be a s**t talked but thats about it! Although he is good for boxing because he demands alot of attention and brings some non fans to the table with his cocky attitude and money ways. His bad out weight the good because he fails to make the fights the fans want to see, he is not an entertaining fighter for the casual fans, and his antics like calling the best boxer on the planet a steroid user make the collective sport look bad.
As for the entire Mayweather clan, they are like boxing's relatives that no one wants to invite to the party. Kinda like Randy Quaid in National Lampoons Family Vacation............
Ray, this is not a ALT account (I had to look up ALT account on urban dictionary...lol) I just joined the forum a little while ago after lurking for a long time, and thought I'd post something.
I found this website about 7 months ago and I've never had access to so much boxing news, info, and knowledge. Been great to see boxing is alive and kicking and making a big comeback!!
I agree Shane seems to be very confident but at the same time Floyd doesn't seem as confident as he normally is. This is why he is insisting on a rematch clause as well as 10oz gloves. I think Shane will suprise alot of people on May 1st. There is no way he gets dominated in this fight, and he will not be knocked out. Foyd is a great fighter but he can only really fight one type of fight, thus far it has worked for him but he hasn't fought an animal like Shane before. Shane has been in every type of fight technical, brawls, in close and counter punching. Floyd has never done that he fights one type of fight against guys he can impose his style on. I see Shane pressuring Floyd hard for most of the fight and going for a knock out which is entirely possible, or Floyd beats him on points. This version of Shane is still better than the DLH version Floyd fought.
Showtime has everything to lose here there is no way they let FLoyd go head to head against Canelo/Cotto. They have to be ensured of a return on their investment of $32 million a fight.
There is only so much boxing PPV buying audience out there, even if the total would be a million buys you have to bet that conservatively Canelo/Cotto would at least pull 30% of that, 300k buys for Golden Boy card and 700k buys for Floyd would be a big lose for Showtime. Not to mention Floyd's last fight was a snoozer, and public opinion of him is down, Hisanic card with Cotto/Canelo and this number could be much lower for Showtime.
Advantage Golden boy since anything over 300k would be a bonus for them, Showtime loses out big time here, I dont see them going head to head.
Pacquiao showed his amazing skills against a top five WW and if you don’t appreciate it, that’s your loss. Who would you suggest he should have fought instead, Mayweather wanted nothing to do with him, Mosley was signed to fight someone else, and he already took care of Cotto. So he went after the next top guy available on short notice with little negotiating hassle which was Clottey. Although I wasn’t expecting Pac to lose I was expecting Clottey to be more competitive which was disappointing, but I enjoyed what Pac did anyways. Either way Pac put on a clinic, and boxing got a lot of exposure, they filled a stadium with 50k+ on the name of a non-american fighter, no one else out there can do that. Every major media source covered the fight and he does what he always does, which is try to entertain the fans.
How big is Pac naturally? He is a force fed welter weight (7000 calories a day to maintain the weight and training schedule) on a more “natural” 3000 calories a day I believe he is probably a junior welter weight. So yes he is beating men who are naturally larger than him, and like the other poster said Mayweather is beating men who are smaller.
Has Clottey said or done anything to even remotely seem like he isn't coming to win on fight night. Clottey looks real good right now, the guy has barely ever been hurt and he has the chance of a life time here. I don't know why he isn't held in higher regard by some people and why everyone is overlooking him. Its not like this guy is multi millionaire coming in there looking for a payday, this is a guy with a similiar up bringing to Pac's who has the chance of a lifetime to not only make history but set himself and family up for life. Pac had that same chance 10 years ago on 2 weeks notice, Clottey had 10 weeks to prepare.
This fight will be more competative than the Cotto fight for sure. I just hope we get to see a competative fight where Pac has to work hard for a victory and show the world his amazing skill set. Remember when JMM fought Floyd, him and Nacho made it clear they were just there to survive. Clottey is one of those guys that will go out on his sheild.
BTW I got Pac by KO in the 10th round.
he did have a dent in the tip before the Berto fight, maybe he got an injection (botox) to even it out before 24/7 started filming, maybe Floyd caught wind about this and is such an a$$hole he makes fun of him, kinda like a inside joke between both of them
Simple answer: Pac puts on muscle strength and size during training camp, whereas other fighter’s lose it.
If you have more muscle on your body you will naturally be able to punch harder, and punch faster. You will also be able to take a punch a lot better and even if you get wobbled by a punch your legs will be strong enough to hold you up. His work rate is absolutely phenomenal, but he is technically better with a high degree of accuracy. The reason his stamina and power are so crazy is because he does not have to drain himself ever to make weight. He actually puts on weight, size and strength during training camp the Klitchko’s do this too. If your fighting guys that are coming down in weight, draining themselves they are going to lose strength, power, and speed, because when losing weight you will also lose a certain degree of muscle mass as well as water and fat.
I will give you an example, Floyd Mayweather fights at 147lb he drains himself to make that weight, although he is highly conditioned athlete, his body is probably not functioning at its maximum optimal capacity. Say he trained just as hard and didn’t have to drain water weight and eat less calories, he would be faster, stronger and more athletic as a 157lber. Pac on the other hand is eating 7000 calories a day just to get to 145lb and his body is functioning at 100% of maximum.
No one is denying that Floyd don't train hard or any of that, i'm just asking maybe because he hasn't had to really challenge himself in a while he may not be mentally prepared once that bell rings. He may get caught off gaurd because he isn't used to having to step up against larger, faster and stronger boxer than he used to. Sports training is all repetition and developing instincts and reflexes. So in competition if his body and mind are geared to slower smaller men maybe he won't be able to adopt to a larger, faster guy. It may catch him off gaurd. I'm not saying he can't compete, but maybe he has become complacent because he always has every advantage lately, size, speed, strenght and weight.
Its like if Lebron James was always playing one-on-one against bench warmers and college players, beating them easily because he is just that much more talented. Then one day Kobe walks in there and plays him and Kobe beats him cause Lebron is used to less talented players. Its not saying Lebron isn't as, if not more, talented than Kobe, he just hasn't been playing against that talent of a player for a while. So it catches him off gaurd and he can't bring his compete level up quick enough and then he gets beat.
Speaking from a lot of experience I would like to add my two cents. If you really break it down, these are the facts as I see them of street fighting.
A street fight will rarely last more than a two minutes
90% of people will gas within the first minute
Most people throw haymakers, wide looping hooks
High kick do not work in fights unless you are a highly skilled muay tai fighter, it just doesn’t happen
Most people will throw one or maybe two punches at a time
Most people can only throw a punch with one hand
Most people do not consider defence when fighting therefore are vulnerable to punches
Most people have never been hit, therefore have very little punch resistance
Many guys will try to hockey fight, grab your shirt with one hand and swing with the other.
You should always stay on your feet, never bend over or go down to the ground to strike an opponent your putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Most people are afraid of fighting
Most people that do not know how to punch will be off balance and fall down rather easily
Advantages boxing will give you.
Your fighting endurance will be much greater therefore you will be able to fight for longer
You will be able to throw straight powerful punches in between your opponents haymaker hooks
Your hands will be high, therefore making your defence much better than your opponent
Your punch resistance will be much greater from sparring all the time
Time will slow down and you will be able to react and counter to your opponents moves
Your backwards and forwards movements will give you the agility to keep punching while moving
You can quickly strike and knock down an opponent moving onto the next one if necessary because you will throw punches in bunches
You will throw combo’s therefore confusing your opponent and striking with greater accuracy
If an opponent grabs your shirt he will only have one hand to throw with and you will not grab his shirt and throw with both hands (do the math)
You can punch equally hard and good with both hands
Your anticipation of your opponents moves is much higher
You can control your emotions and everything becomes instinctual like in sparing
You will be physically strong
You will have excellent balance
You can take on big or small guys
I think the videos posted above provide proof for my points. Look at the last video, the attacker’s keep coming forward, the boxer using his movement is backing up and countering, knocking down one guy at time, and ends up taking out five guys, those guys were so tired and off balance they kept falling on their own in some cases.
So in my opinion if you want to be able handle yourself on the street in realistic situations, boxing is hands down the best art form you can learn. And always remember, if it’s about to go down and you think your opponent might throw a shot, then be first to the punch, don’t even give the other guy a chance to land the lucky shot.
“Floyd fans should love the K bros. They use the sweet science to a T”
Awesome point and most Floyd fans would probably want the K bros to fight more like Pac anyways cause they are heavyweights. Why would they trade shots when they don’t need too, both these guys are no worse for wear mentally or physically and show no signs of being in the pro fight game.
“I have to say that the last few fights that Wlad was in could have easily ended in 3 rounds if he would throw the right with conviction from the start.”
And if he fails to end it in the first 3 rounds, he realizes he weighs 245lb and has to have enough gas to make it thru a 12 round fight, he is smart enough not to blow his load in the first 3 rounds.
“they have some of the highest KO percentage in history”
That’s my point, if they were American and had the same statistics they would be loved because American would own the heavyweight champions. Right now there is not even a glimmer of hope of any American heavyweight to even remotely stand a chance at beating them, so they are routinely hated on by the average American boxing fan. Loud mouth Haye or punch drunk Toney would not stand a chance against these two, these two are physical specimens, with immense boxing and athletic talent.
Boxing Analysts, experts and writers have never denied the Kiltchko’s of any accolades, and recognize them for what they are. Wasn’t it last year Wlad was up for fighter of the year honours? Again it’s not their fault the best competition they can face is from Europe and not America and its still isn’t good enough.
“god these threads are stupid……and……..Another recycled thread. Who cares?”
Then why take the time to comment….. would you prefer that we talk about Floyd and Pac for the remainder of 2010. They just fought this last weekend so I think its still relevant to discuss them.
I gotta disagree, Amercian HW's are pathetic, the euro's have essentially taken over and are filling arenas on a regular basis with 50k plus. The Klitchko bros. would have be top ten in any era, they aren't just big but they have so much athletism and boxing skills. Its just a shame they could never cross over to the American market mainly because the good competition is also Euro and American fighters don't put up much of a fight.
Just ask Lennox Lewis how good they are, he never did grant a rematch to a man who was forced to not continue due to cuts. A true champion would have granted a rematch.
Boxing doesn't need him but he is a good addition to an already loaded WW division. Couple of points IMHO....
1). He is good because casual fans are attracted to the way he fights.
2). Only hardcore boxing fans understand or care about the severity of what he did.
3). If it wasn't Cotto then people would not be so upset. For instance if it was Clottey I think all would be forgiven and forgotten for the most part.
4). He already got a beat down from one Sugar Shane Mosley!
5). All other sports let their cheaters come back...baseball, football etc.
Maybe someone should start a thread that asks, how many people on this forum have fought through a broken jaw? then we will have our answer if Ortiz made the right choice.
Im not an Ortiz fan, frankly I think he is emotionally immature person, probably not any fault of his own, he just had some really terrible circumstances in the emotionally developmental years in his young life.
But regardless of that, how many guys on this forum have been in the ring had their jaw broken in two places, were swallowing blood and being cracked repeatdly by a high calibre fighter............If you have please enlighten us with you opinion because its the only one that should hold any validity?