pacman's increase in power (no flamers in here please)...

Diddn't work for JMM why...training + drinking pee = ???? jmm is naturally a 130 pounder thats why. he never had to kill himself to make those weight, so going up must have been difficult for him carrying all that extra baggage at 144. he shouldnt even be at 135.

he stayed in the lower weight classes b.c he want good enough or had to the balls to climb in weight like May did plain and simple. he fights smaller guys in the lower weight class, and when he finally moves up to the weight class he should have been in for a while, hes fighting people that are shot pac has defence? this is news to me yeah its more of his footwork that he uses for his so called defence, lateral movement . Something he never had at 130 and below.

exactly.someone trains the same but dont need to stave themself anymore to make the fights. they gonna gain more muscle mass and strength. its only logical. training + surplus of calories = increase in muscle mass. Diddn't work for JMM why...training + drinking pee = ????

he stayed in the lower weight classes b.c he want good enough or had to the balls to climb in weight like May did plain and simple. he fights smaller guys in the lower weight class, and when he finally moves up to the weight class he should have been in for a while, hes fighting people that are shot he stayed at lower weight because he was not good enough, exactly. his defence back then would have never allowed him to compete at welter. Ppl say he gets hit too much now, back at feather he was getting much more but those guys didnt hit as hard as welters. I say its a combination of defence/footwork and punching technique that has allowed him to move up, but mostly it's his footwork, which is his main defence and allows him darts in and out. His head movement is still poor.

Why is it so hard to understand that when you move up in weight you will punch harder. What the **** is hard to comprehend here? His ability to retain his speed is what's amazing. Another thing is Pac's technique has improve over the years as well. And better technique= a harder punch. exactly.someone trains the same but dont need to stave themself anymore to make the fights. they gonna gain more muscle mass and strength. its only logical. training + surplus of calories = increase in muscle mass.

Why is it so hard to understand that when you move up in weight you will punch harder. What the **** is hard to comprehend here? His ability to retain his speed is what's amazing. Another thing is Pac's technique has improve over the years as well. And better technique= a harder punch.

Sooooo, Pacquiao built his career fighting smaller men? yes and no. Before he moved up in weight, that is true. You only have to look at how ripped he was compared MAB, Marquez and everyone else. The guy was starving himself to fight those men. Nazim Richardson was right. Pacquiao aint that small, i don't know why ppl keep saying he's smaller than everyone else. Yes he's a small welter but u can clearly see he was no smaller than Hatton at lightwelter. Pac has size as an advantage in the lower weights but he also had the disadvantage of starving himself to make weight and only had a great left and no right arm. His defence was non-existance. I think his heart rather than technique won him most of the fights back then. Now the guy has good defence , can punch with both fist and punching from all kinds of crasy angles with either arm and sick combos. Got to like the guy.

So when Cotto, JMM, and others, they got stronger by going up and were draining themselves in their previous weight. But with Pac.........

I think we know why.

pac's power isn't the issue. it's pac's speed and southpaw angles. he's fighting at welterweight but with the speed of a featherweight. welterweights aren't used to that kind of speed coming from those kinds of angles. only pac's fight against hatton didn't pac actually KO someone. all his other fights above 135 have been ref stoppages or tKOs. is a ref stoppage not a TKO? I mean a mid round ref stoppage. not stopping because of a cut in between rounds.

i am not accusing pacman of anything here, i swear! but i was reading something in a newspaper the other day and one part of the whole argument that pacman uses steroids seems to be this issue of him moving up in weight and his ko rate rising rather than falling. to me, this done sound somewhat strange. my question is this; how many fighters have gone up in weight and actually raised their ko rate like pacman has? can anyone name them? im 24 years old, and before the rise of really fast internet i was primarily a fan of british boxing, my point being that my knowledge of american boxing is not as entensive as my knowledge of british boxing. i cant think of any british boxers of note who have gone through the divisions and actually gained power. maybe there are some american based fighters that have? once again, can i please point out that im not saying pacman is taking steroids. its just that all this talk about his increase in power as he has gone through the divisions made me wonder if other fighters have done the same in the past... please do not call me a flomo :) Every1 forgets that prior to pacs rise, it was his power that we talked about. Not his speed. But we're talking yrs ago

then by that logic, surely every quick fighter who moves up in weight will be successful, which certainly isnt the case... That's right. Pac is a unique fighter. He's gotten better technically. He's no longer cutting weight. He's more comfortable and maybe a bit faster now, but his power isn't any better. His pre Clottey KO streak has got people overrating his power like crazy. Hatton is the only guy who got laid out. Diaz, Cotto, Oscar, all went down via accumulation. Again, Pac's power ain't increased. He's just fighting guys who are slower and can't anticipate his shots.

that was the whole basis of the srticle i was reading lol. i'll try and remember where the artcile was and post it. the general point of it was that the reason for all this controvery was pacman moving through the weights and ko'ing more people as he moved up. if it's not true then fair enough i guess lol Joshua Clottey 147 W UD 12 12 Miguel Angel Cotto 145 W TKO 12 12 Ricky Hatton 140 W KO 2 12 Oscar De La Hoya 145 39-5-0 RTD 8 David Diaz 135 34-1-1 W TKO 9 12

i am not accusing pacman of anything here, i swear! but i was reading something in a newspaper the other day and one part of the whole argument that pacman uses steroids seems to be this issue of him moving up in weight and his ko rate rising rather than falling. to me, this done sound somewhat strange. my question is this; how many fighters have gone up in weight and actually raised their ko rate like pacman has? can anyone name them? im 24 years old, and before the rise of really fast internet i was primarily a fan of british boxing, my point being that my knowledge of american boxing is not as entensive as my knowledge of british boxing. i cant think of any british boxers of note who have gone through the divisions and actually gained power. maybe there are some american based fighters that have? once again, can i please point out that im not saying pacman is taking steroids. its just that all this talk about his increase in power as he has gone through the divisions made me wonder if other fighters have done the same in the past... please do not call me a flomo :) Pac was a "1 dimensional fighter" before.....and only recently, since Diaz fight, has started to use his right hand EFFECTIVELY. He doesn't have to drain himself to make weight anymore, and since you don't drain youself, you keep all that energy and strength, combine that with a southpaw stance, punches coming from weird angles, speed that WWs aren't use to dealing with and power in both hands, you now have a "Prime Pacquiao". Having Roach in his corner is gravy too. If you think about it...he really has only KOd 2 fighters in the last couple years....Diaz and Hatton. All the other TKOs have come by ref stoppage....volume punching and accuracy. You don't need to have Heavyweight Power to break a rock.....but if you hit it enough times, the rock will break. P.S - Manny should just take the dam tests.....:boxing:

Pac's power hasn't increased at all. He's at higher weights fighting slower guys who can't see his punches coming. then by that logic, surely every quick fighter who moves up in weight will be successful, which certainly isnt the case...

He doesn't have a higher KO rate. his KO rate at 135+ is only 60%. 5 fights 3 KO's. that was the whole basis of the srticle i was reading lol. i'll try and remember where the artcile was and post it. the general point of it was that the reason for all this controvery was pacman moving through the weights and ko'ing more people as he moved up. if it's not true then fair enough i guess lol

you've totally misinterpreted the whole point of the thread. your list has nothing to do with KO RATIO. of course boxers are gonna move up in weight and still stop people. but do they actually have a higher ko ratio like pacman has? why all the flomo talk? it's so childish. if what this article i was reading has it right, then this is a huge compliment to pacman because he has done something no-one else has before. you pacman fans are impossible though (not that floyd's fans arent equally impossible on this forum!). why are you so defensive? if pacman's ko ratio has increased, it doesnt mean he's on steroids, as many people have illustrated in this thread. why are u going on about flomos? this is potentially a great achievement by pacman but you're taking as an insult to him...He doesn't have a higher KO rate. his KO rate at 135+ is only 60%. 5 fights 3 KO's.

Obviously u never saw that fight, He had larios badly hurt, not to mention down twice twice in teh fight. The same number of times he had Cotto down in that fight as it happens. not only that it was well documented that pacquiao did not train at all for that fight and when into fight night looking drowsy from partying too much.

Pac's power hasn't increased at all. He's at higher weights fighting slower guys who can't see his punches coming.

jimmy mclarnin started at 112, ended up destroying fighters at 147. roberto duran started at 118, ko/tko'd boxers from 126,130,135,147,154,160, & as high as 168. billy conn started at what 135, ko/tko'd boxers at 147,160,175, all the way up to heavyweight. went 8 rounds with joe louis. ray robinson started at 126 & 135 as a golden glover, ended up being the greatest welterweight & middleweight of all time. would have won at 175 if not for the heat. hector macho camacho started at 130. tko/kos at 135,140,147,154, all the way up to 160. georges carpentier started at 112, tko/kos all the way up to heavyweight. He fought in the 20s. I can keep on going. the list is endless. Pac's power surge is not really a increase but a short ****e statistically based on his opponents. david diaz was kod. hatton ran into a perfect shot, cotto lasted 12 rnds until the tko & clottte went 12. oscar quit on the stool. The flomos want to tear down pacquiao's wins because the opponents were crap yet when they want to play the steroid card they act as if pac was chopping down george chuvalo or something. double standards & hypocrisy. plus his speed has decreased. pac was so much faster as a featherweight than a welterweight. you've totally misinterpreted the whole point of the thread. your list has nothing to do with KO RATIO. of course boxers are gonna move up in weight and still stop people. but do they actually have a higher ko ratio like pacman has? why all the flomo talk? it's so childish. if what this article i was reading has it right, then this is a huge compliment to pacman because he has done something no-one else has before. you pacman fans are impossible though (not that floyd's fans arent equally impossible on this forum!). why are you so defensive? if pacman's ko ratio has increased, it doesnt mean he's on steroids, as many people have illustrated in this thread. why are u going on about flomos? this is potentially a great achievement by pacman but you're taking as an insult to him...