since it doesn't look like a rematch is going to happen with wright-taylor any time soon and taylor lined up to fight mora, why not have a rematch with vargas-wright if vargas can get past mosley. since the first fight was close and some thought that wright won i'm sure it would be a big payday for both in a rematch. is there anyone else that would like to see this happen?
Personally I would not like to see this happen. I'm sure it would generate a ton of PPV money, but I just think at this stage of their careers, Wright would destroy Vargas. I think if Vargas does get by Mosley, we could see this fight in the works becuase of the $$$ factors, but it will not be a good fight. I think Wright completely dominates.
how would this fight have looked? n how come it never happeneD? of course, talking bout a prime PRINCE. i say, morales tko 9 round.
I agree. Prince was exciting, but never was good enough to beat the elite/great guys. Morales is an elite fighter and would have ended the fight in the 7-10 range.
Prince did have power and he did score big wins against McCullough and Kevin Kelley, the only time he stepped up against a championship caliber fighter (Barrera) he got whupped. I think Morales would do the same thing to him.
You guys are all wrong. I made a thread immediatly after the Baldy fight saying how great Gatti looked. He just wasnt as good as Baldy. I still thought Gatti looked great and maybe the best that I had seen him look in years. He still wouldve beat most guys and I think he wouldve even gave Cotto & Hatton alot of problems that night. Baldy was just a monster. If Gatti hit other guys with those shots then he wouldve had a KO.
He was much more fluent and coordinated in the Baldy fight then any other time I can recently remember. I said after that fight that I would still love to see Gatti vs Hatton or Cotto and dont be surprised if Gatti does really well in those fights.
I just think Baldy is better then alot of guys give him credit for and I would put a million dollars that neither Hatton or Cotto would beat Baldy right now
Very good post and I agree with a lot of it. I thought the same thing about the Gatti/Baldomir fight. Until the 6th round when Gatti hurt his hand, contrary to what most people think, Gatti actually looked very good and was making it a competitive fight. He was landing some thunderous punches that would have KO'd a lot of guys, even some natural 147 guys. Baldy just has a strong enough chin that he was able to stand in there and take it. Gatti keeping his left hand down low and getting peppered with rights didn't help his cause, but in general he fought a very good fight until the 6th when his hand got busted up. Basically he just faced a guy who right now, is on top of his game and could beat the vast majority of fighters out there at 147.
This was not, in any way, the same type of fighter we saw against Mayweather last summer. Gatti was moving well, he was putting some good punches together and he was landing some bombs. Against PBF my boy Arturo got his ass beat, but I can't really say that it was all that lopsided against Baldy. I don't think Arturo is done quite yet. If he picks opponents who he matches up well with, I think we could see him come out victorious. He's still got good power, he's in great shape and he still has that tremendous heart. Against a lot welterweights he could have won that night, but Baldomir was just stronger and better that night. Gatti is my favourite fighter and I'd love to see him stick around and get a W to finish off his career.
Morales would of hardly stood a chance against the 94/95 Hamed.
The 98-02 Hamed wouldn't of beaten Morales.
The 96/97 Hamed would of given Morales a very close, tough fight.
The only problem I have with this is that the 94/95 version of Prince had never faced anyone of note. It's understandable that a young fighter won't face top notch opposition and so we have to base our predictions on talent alone, but still, it's hard to say that an untested Hamed would have destroyed one of the best 122-130 pounders of the past decade. Remember that early on Morales also had victories over McCullough, In Jin Chi, Junior Jones, Kelley, Ayala etc...Of course his first loss also came against Barrera but early on he faced much stiffer opposition and to me his natural boxing skills most likely would have prevailed against any version of Hamed.
I'll be pulling for Gatti in this one. I think he'll be able to get a late stoppage. I just don't have that much faith in Baldomir's abilities.
If Gatti can get by him and set up a Cotto-Gatti match though, that would be great. Still, Gatti fights are always exciting, so this one should be no different.
pac by ko, similar to last fight.
I think I see it the same way. It's a hard fight to predict. There are a lot of nuthuggers on both sides of this fight and that's fine, but it is hard to get some objective opinions. I think if we do see a KO it will be Pac delivering it in the later rounds, otherwise, Morales will walk away with a close decision. Either way, it should be one of the best fights of the year.
Holy shit. When I read this I couldn't believe he just retired like that. This leaves the HW division in serious trouble.
Who's gonna sell tickets in that division? Worst division in boxing becomes worse.
Ward went down from the shot to the ear that broke his eardrum, got up staggered all over the place, got himself into the corner so he could hold himself from falling, tapped his abs telling Gatti that was all he was gonna give him raised his hands to protect his head and took Gatti's body shots refusing to lower his hands and give his head up he showed the most intestinal fortitude I've ever seen.That boy had heart.
Yeah that was great. Like Gatti said, if it was anybody else who got hit by that punch, they wouldn't have gotten up. And Ward continued and finished the fight, it was incredible.
Both guys are little past their prime and they have popularity, but his shouldn't be PPV. I might go catch it a bar that's playing it but I'm not paying 50$ for two guys who looked average at best in their last fights. As for who would win, I think it might be close, but I don't know what to expect.
LMAO....Lennox with out a doubt. :rolleyes:
Exactly, prime Lewis would destroy Wlad. Too much strength and skill. Wlad's size might cause a little bit of a concern, but not enough to make it close.
Mickey Ward was never knocked out.
Vince Phillips stopped him on a brutal cut.
It was a TKO loss, but Ward wasnt' down or counted out.
True, my bad. I should have said he was only stopped once.
The fight against Leija doesn't count as a true stoppage to me. Should've been at TKO for Ward or at worst a no contest, but what can you do.
Thanks for those man. That overhand right is so damn impressive. He's an incredibly talented guy for sure. It sucks to see Gatti get beat up like that again and again though. Amazing hand speed by Floyd, and good power to go along with that.
Gatti is probably my favorite fighter simply because he's fun to watch, but I just don't think he has the power he gets credit for. He never really put out someone who was recognized as having a good chin. Three fights with Ward, no knockouts...
I think Gabriel Ruleas had a good chin and Gatti knocked him down with a devastating shot. Wilson Rodriguez had a pretty good chin too and same thing Gatti knocked him out with an equally devastating shot.
As for the Ward comment, I have to completely disagree. Micky Ward's chin was amazing to say the least. The guy was knocked out once in 51 pro fights. That is damn impressive. In fact, I think Gatti's power is more impressive when you look at the shot he landed on Ward in their second fight. Dropping Mickey Ward like that shows packs a heavy punch.
With all that being said, I'd if you're looking for a one punch knockout go with Kostya Tszyu. But Gatti is close to me.
Next to Lamont Peterson and Andre Ward he is one of America's most exciting prospects. The most promising prospect though, = Sylvian Bute.
Do you mean Lucien Bute, who fights out of Canada? Because I've honestly never heard of Sylvain Bute and Lucien Bute is really impressive prospect.
Good call on Peterson too. He looks very good. When I saw him on Friday Night Fights he said he wanted to be a Winky Wright type of boxer. His brother Anthony is pretty good as well. I've only seen each guy once though. Still, they both looked really good. I want to see them again, see how they progressed.
In my estimation.
Micky Ward was an excellent prizefighter. I dont buy into this "club fighter" deal everyone is getting their panties in a knot about.
I don't know if he was an excellent prizefighter, but he was a great fighter. Great because of his heart, his courage etc...He should be respected because he never backed down and he never quit. So yeah those who call him a club fighter are wrong, but I also don't think he had the natural skill to be a prizefighter.
To me prizefighter is more the ultimate skill guys who have belts, (Mayweather, RJJ in his prime etc...)
Still, Ward was great to watch and I'm glad he got to make big money before he retired because he deserved it. He was in wars before that and took punishment for pride. I also respect the fact that he always stayed around 140, despite his age. He said if you move up as you grow older, it's because you're not working hard enough. A blue collar, working class hero type of guy, that's how I see Ward.
I guess that is where I am misunderstood.
I was unaware of the exact defenition of "Prizefighter" as opposed to "Champion" etc. Either way, he is one of my all time favs.
I love the guy too. He's had so many great fights and has been great to watch. So yeah, he's one of my favorite fighters too.
I remember seeing his fight against Judah when Judah was an undefeated prospect. (15-0 I think) Ward fought a lot of the fight southpaw, (which hurt him imo) and Judah was too fast for him, but he kept at it and fought hard until the end. He even had Judah running in the 8th round I think. Landed a vicious left hook and he had Judah running for the rest of the round. Micky just stood in the middle of the ring and said "come on."
Bozo,
You're right, that stoppage doesn't take anything away from Ward in any way. It's unfortunate the decision was the wrong one, but it doesn't affect what Ward accomplished. Seeing a rematch between the two would have been nice though, but I'm happier Ward chose to go on and fight Gatti.
After Taylor knocks out Hopkins in the rematch, he will dominate Sturm, along with the rest of the division.
Assuming he does beat Hopkins in the rematch, which may happen, but I'm going to say it will be another close fight. Anyways, assuming he does go on to win, do you see him beating Winky? I agree that almost everyone else at 160 shouldn't give him too many problems, but I think Winky would probably give Taylor a lot of problems.
As for the thread, people have pretty much summed it up. Taylor is fighting Hopkins, how is he ducking Sturm? Seems to be a gap in logic there. No matter what you think of Bernard, he's still a world class boxer and along with Winky, is the biggest threat in the division.
Plus, if I remember it correctly, Winky gets a shot at the winner. So if Taylor does go on to win, he will be fighting another one of the best fighters around in Wright. Taylor has nothing to gain by fighting Sturm, and if they did meet up, I don't see how Taylor could lose.
I never saw Ouma vs Karmazin but maybe someone could pm it to me. Obviously Ouma is a top 154 guy after his wins over the other top 10 154 guys. He maybe was just sick for Karmazin.
That's the way I see it. I also haven't seen the Karzamin fight, but judging by most reports, he didn't seem to be 100%. I'm hoping he can bounce back because he's an exciting fighter and as you said, he's obviously a good fighter and he could be a force in the 154 division.
I'm just about as big a Cotto fan as there is on this site, but he should stay away from Castillo for the time being.
Castillo is a fucking bull, who could probably take just about everything Cotto hits him with (unless its a monsterous combo).
I've become a lot more realistic about Cotto as of late, I now realize that his success against elite fighters will come at higher weights if at all.
I think making 140 is killing him. Cotto's best shot against Castillo would be to cut him up. He could also stand a chance at a decision should he survive the first 6-7 rounds (the rounds he's looked most vulnerable in lately).
That's the way I see it. I love Cotto and he's been very exciting to watch so far in his career, but I don't know if he has enough to beat Castillo. Castillo would probably be able to take most of what Cotto can dish out but then come back and put him out.If they fough inside I don't see Cotto winning the fight. If Cotto boxes him at a distance, maybe he could build a solid lead, but his penchant for getting into brawls could haunt him against Castillo.
Cotto might be able to build up an early lead though, because Castillo doesn't jump on his opponents from the start. If Cotto could pressure him and get and early lead, who knows...Still, even if all those things fell into place, I still think it would be very hard for Cotto to win the fight.
As for moving up in weight, I agree, I can't see Cotto beating Hatton or Mayweather at 140. And other than those two, there's no one really left for him at 140. If he were to move up to 147 though, I don't know how much success he could have. He's a great talent, no doubt, but I don't know how well he can do against truly elite competition. Hopefully 2006 will set up some big fights for him where we can see him against top opponents.
I've always loved Gatti-Ward. Granted they aren't on the same talent level of Barrera-Morales, but what they did was amazing. They managed to do something very special. I don't think there are many of boxers who would be willing to go through that much punishement, for no titles, but simply for pride and because that's how they fight.
I can understand how some people see that as more brawling and not really appealing, but personally I loved every minute of those fights. I like how humble both guys were. There was no trash talk or ill will, it was just two guys refusing to quit and taking as good as they gave. Each fight had great moments and each fight left you feeling amazed at what these two guys did to each other.
Duddy has a shot to be a good MW, but not a top 4-5 guy especially with the crop of talent we have now in the division. He's an outstanding body puncher, but has no jab so he will always get beat by boxers, but he's definetly going to bring some excitement, kind of like Gatti.
He's still young though, I'm hoping he can develop some sort of jab because if he does, he'll be a very dangerous fighter. Not that he isn't already, but if he doesn't have a jab when he steps up against tougher opposition, as you said, it's likely that he will simply get beat. Still, he's a very exciting and I've loved every fight I've seen of his so far. And I agree, he will always bring excitement to his fights.
im not suggesting he was faking it - but come on...going straight into a business partnership...the thumping of his fist repeatedly with force into the canvas...?? i dont buy it...sumting was up. De la hoya had huge heart - if he had enuff energy to thump his fist down the way he did, i reckon he cud have got up - but i reckon sumting else was going down.
It was a perfect punch by Hopkins. As Bozo said, DLH stood in there for a bit, but Hopkins was just too much. The combinations of Bernard's skill and size wore down DLH.
De La Hoya was an overstuffed welterweight. He doesn't have the body to fight at 160. As some have said, he started out as a lightweight and was deadly, he kept that speed until welterweight, where he was an incredible fighter. But even at 154 he didn't look too sharp. 160 was just too much for him, he didn't have the speed or the power at all at that weight.
Yeah, we all know he received a gift that fight. Sturm was just a "stepping stone" for Hopkins. Anyone know who Sturm is fighting next?
According to boxrec, Sturm is fighting Maselino Masoe on November 26th, in Germany.
I think it could be a very good fight. I think Castillo would come out victorious, but I see it as a hard fought battle. It could however, be an early KO for Castillo. Castillo probably should be fighting at 140 at this stage in his career, and I think he could be a force at super lightweight.
Cotto does get wobbled easily, but he's shown great resislience in the past. He has the devasting left hook to the body and he might be able to wear down Castillo if he targeted that punch. Also, Cotta throws good combinations, so if he kept Castillo on the defensive, he might make it a good fight.
If they got inside and just traded, I think Cotto would get knocked out like Corrales did. This could be debatable, but seeing as Cotto gets wobbled easily, one punch by Castillo could make him unsteady and then Castillo would have instincts to put him down. But if they boxed and only traded occasionally, I think it could be a great fight.
I'd give Cotto a few more tune-up fights before throwing him against a guy like Castillo. He's still young and has shown he can fight through trouble, but I think he could use a bit more experience before he went up against a veteran like Castillo.
Most have pretty much said it, but I don't know how much power and speed Tito can bring up to 168. Even 160 is a little too much for him so I don't think he would do well at all at 168.
Even after his recent showings and clear loss of speed, I think RJJ would have enough to beat Trinidad at Super Middleweight. Trinidad would just be putting on too much weight imo and wouldn't have enough speed or the power to hurt Jones. Tito's best weight is weltereight or junior middleweight.
I think Mayweather would beat both guys, but I think both could give him some trouble. Both would give him different types of trouble.
Hatton's all out offensive style might give PBF some trouble, but he's so fast and he can slip away from punches so well he probably could dance around the ring all day and just pepper Hatton with shots and then slide out. If Hatton might be able to press enough to slow Floyd down and force him to trade more than he wants to.
In PBF-Castillo II, there was a point where Floyd was just peppering Castillo with overhand rights and then slipping away. I could see the same thing happen against Hatton. I'm not comparing Hatton to Castillo, I'm just saying that if Hatton tried to beat down Floyd on the inside, (like Castillo tried in their second fight) I don't think he would be successful. I also don't see how Hatton could drag him down into a war. Floyd is too conscious about not getting hit to let himself go and fight all out brawl with Hatton.
Judah would offer the additional problems of moving up to 147 (Although he's already doing this for Mitchell, so it's probably not really a concern) and fighting a slick southpaw. Still, everything Judah does, Mayweather can do better. Debatable, but it's just my opinion. Both are great fighters and are slick, but Mayweather has more hand speed, foot speed, ring smarts etc...than Judah.Basically, if they both just boxed, Mayweather could pick up on Judah's weaknesses and exploit them. Even though Judah doesn't have any glaring weaknesses in my mind, Floyd would probably still be able to land most of his punches on him.
I'm not a PBF fan by any means. I think he's supremely talented as a boxer, but I'm not a fan, so I don't want to be accused as being a blind Floyd fan. I think both matchups would offer great fights for fans, but I think Floyd wins both fights.
1. Mayweather
2. Hopkins
3. Wright
4. Barrera
5. Judah
6. Castillo
7. Pacquiao
8. Rafa Marquez
9. Erik Morales
10. Juan Manuel Marquez
This list is probably a lot what mine would look like. I love Pacquiao, but I would switch him and Morales. I know Morales is coming off a loss and Pacman a win, but I still think P4P he is the better fighter. Pacquiao is more exciting to me, but Morales is better rounded and more complete imo.
Also, Judah might be a little high, but he's got a lot of skill and a lot of nice wins. In terms of the definition of P4P, you put Judah's skills in any div and he should succeed. Since his loss to Tszyu, he's been a more mature fighter. He's finishing guys off and he's fun to watch.
As for other lists, I haven't seen Oscar Larios' name around much. I think he's definetly top 15. It's harder to put him top 10, but around 15 he should be there. Great hand speed and combination skills. He's got 2 wins in wars against McCullough, Nedal Hussein and a TKO against Israel Vasquez. He's basically owned the 122 division for a while now.
A few of the matchups I'd like to see. I considred the division as well as past fights and exciting fights. I also tried to put out some different ones.
Heavyweight
Honestly not much. Vinny Maddalone is at least an exciting guy to watch, but in terms of ranked guys, there really aren't many matchups that I get overly excited about.
Although Wlad-Toney would probably be my choice.
CW: Dale Brown vs. O'Neil Bell II (In a neutral location)
LHW: Antonio Tarver vs. Glen Johnson III
SMW: Jeff Lacy vs. Calzaghe
MW:Bernard Hopkins vs. Winky Wright
JMW: Kassim Ouma vs. Roman Karzamin II
WW:Zab Judah vs. Antonio Margarito
SL:Ricky Hatton vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
(But I agree, I think Cotto/Gatti could make a war)
LW:Corrales vs. Castillo III
SFW:Manny Pacquiao vs. Erik Morales II
FW:Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Injin Chi
SBW: Oscar Larios vs. Israel Vasquez II
BW: Rafael Marquez Unifiying the Belts
*Fantasy Fight*
Rafael Marquez vs. Oscar Larios (Maybe they could fight at a 120 pound catchweight for no tiltles)
SFW: Martin Castillo vs. Fernando Montiel
FW:Jorge Arce vs. Pongsaklek Wonjonkam
I don't follow the other 2 divisions enough to know who would make a good matchup, but any title match would probably work for me. Even Fly and SuperFly I only follow the top ranked guys.