Hell naw foo'.
To many fighters allowed to call themselves "champions" these days.
The best no longer have to fight the best to prove their the best nor do most of them have any desire to fight other top guys in their division.
The skills and basic boxing fundamentals of your average "top ranked" fighters has greatly fallen off over the past 20+ years.
Half of the Heavyweight division's top 10 fighters have man-tits and luv handles and can't box worth a lick and none of them want to fight eachother.
And most of all, America's ELITE Heavyweight sized athletes no longer compete in boxing, which has left a huge talent void in the Heavyweight division.
Anybody who voted any higher than 1 is a :crackhead
This sport is going the way of the dodo.
MMA taking ova yo.
It's about even steven between Tyson and Ali.
Youtube:"1988-03-21 Mike Tyson - Tony Tubbs" and Watch the first 10 minutes of that video to give you a glimpse of how larger than life Tyson was during the height of his reign in the late 80's.
It's a shame that without America's elite Heavyweight sized athletes participating in boxing, the sport will never reach the level of international prominence that it once had.
not sayin floyd is not an atg but ive yet to read/hear of him being called one by a credible historian or analysts tbh....
What about "the ESPN" which has been held in such high esteem in the pacfart community over the years?
It was just a little over 3 years ago that they made an ATG list and Mayweather was in the top 50, while Pacquiao was nowhere to be found on said list.
Uhhhh but FLOYD and FLOYD SR and ROGER and JEFF said Manny Pacquiao was:
-- A midget
-- An amateur
-- Bum who already got KO'd twice
-- Guy who lost to Marquez 3 times
So how does a W over a midget, amateur, bum who already got KO'd 2x, and lost to Marquez 3x catapult someone into TOP 15 ATG status?
Does that make sense to you?
I'm pretty sure Floyd can give less than a fuck about making some nerd azz basement dwelling neckbeards ATG list.
"Legacy don't pay bills"
if kirkland and alvarez comes to fruition thats certainly a dangerous fight for both guys.
both are vurnerable and both have nice punching power. they're both good combination punchers too.
not sure about either guy on the inside against another inside fighter. i would maybe favor alvarez in close because he's been workin on that philly shell style a little more. he seems to be the better body puncher too
2012 should be a good one
Too bad it'll never happen and will remain as a fantasy fight for the forseeable future, unless one of the two either falls off and takes a bad loss (again in Kirkland's case) or starts to look less threatening in some way.
What about "the ESPN" which has been held in such high esteem in the pacfart community over the years?
It was just a little over 3 years ago that they made an ATG list and Mayweather was in the top 50, while Pacquiao was nowhere to be found on said list.
Prime versions of both of these guys would straight up MAUL ANY & EVERYBODY ranked as a current top 10 Heavyweight.
It almost brings a tear to my eye to see what Heavyweight boxing has DEvolved into while watching this fight.
In fairness, the threads are being made by idiots. And if you're going to say Kessler had hand trouble you're just leaving yourself open for people to point out that Calzaghe was a) at the very end of his career and b) had hands of glass at that stage. That wasn't a prime Calzaghe, certainly not physically.
This post sums up a lot of the nonsense about Calzaghe, mainly because a lot of people only saw him after Lacy. His physical peak was much earlier. I'd love to see the Calzaghe of the time of Reid and Sheika around a few years later or especially now. Different animals. That Calzaghe could have hung with a prime Jones, and there ain't many you can say that about.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/lo9991/laughing-nigras.gif
Ward is already the more accomplished fighter @ 168.
Ward has wins over #1 & #2 ranked fighters in the division, and they were beaten in pretty dominant fashion at that.
This is something Calzaghe failed to do during his entire run @ Super Middleweight.
As far as their overall career's, they're about dead even. With a slight edge to Calzaghe because of his "win" over an ancient Hopkins.
Hell Yeah!... :wank:
Thanks for the heads up!
There needs to be some sort of ESPN classic thread STICKIED or at least constantly bumped and updated (like the Friday Night Fights thread) when classic fights are aired on ESPN classic.
Manny has never been dominated in the ring, he's so good people call his close fights "domination" by the other guy. So yeah if Floyd dominated Manny then yeah you have a case but it won't happen.
:stupid:
LOL. . . here is a video of the great primo carnera with his awesome ability to dictate range. . . slippery upper body movement, and straight, powerful jab!
hahahahahaha! look how a skillful maz baer work his way in with such silky head movement, and skillfully placed punches! and watch as the masterful carnera puts up so much resistance with his size and skill! HAHA
:wtf:
That shit look like a gawdamn strongman competition, no wonder Louis was so dominant during that era.
Fighting against a bunch of marginally skilled, unathletic :wt:
He was way ahead of the curb for his time though.
Bowe fought on the inside because he was very good at it .Not because he was simply allowing it. And amateur fights are irrelevant .
Yup.
Bowe's amateur loss to Lewis is about as relevant as Vitali's KO loss to Pele Reid.
Amateur boxing and pro boxing are 2 seperate sports, with 2 seperate sets of rules.
If this occured in amatuer/olympic boxing pre-1980's than yeah, it would be very relevant. Since amateur/olympic boxing back then was practically a shorter 3 round version of professional boxing.
Not to him.
Bowe bitched out of fighting Lewis, there is no arguing that.
Funny how Bowe gets all the blame unjustly dumped on him for that fight not going down, when it was Lewis who TURNED DOWN what was far and away a career high payday at the time and walked away from the negotiating table.
He's not. And he doesn't even fight a "big man's fight" stylistically.
@ 154, Martinez is relatively easy work for Mayweather.
If the fight were to ever take place, it should be at 160 for the lineal middleweight title, that's where it would be more of a pick 'em fight, and would also have added meaning from a legacy standpoint for Floyd.
The weight difference is more or less trivial, because Sergio has never been one to impose himself physically on his opponents.
What's ironic is alot of the same folks player hating on Alexander for his supposed "gift descisions" are sucking on Maidana nutts, as if he were never the beneficiary of a gift descision or two.
The only difference is, Maidana needs gift descisions to beat washed up fighters like Morales & Chop Chop (who Alexander dominated a few years earlier BTW), while Alexander's disputed wins are against prime "elite" opponents. The circumstances of Maidana's disputed wins are FAR worse considering the difference in level of opposition.
And if Maidana ever fought Matthysse or Bradley, he would get an even worse beating from those 2 than the one Alexander's gonna lay on 'em at the end of this month.
Maidana's "gifts" were fights that he had an argument for winning. Alexander has no argument for winning against either Kotelnik, who Maidana holds a win over BTW, or Matthysse. He lost those fights.
You sir, are either absolutely insane or have no idea how to score a fight if you think the Matthysse & Kotelnik fights were clear losses for Alexander. Both fights were close and competitive and could've went either way.
RE-read boxing's scoring criteria and go back and watch both fights without letting message board groupthink cloud your judgement.
Like i said, there's a big difference between winning disputed decisions against washed up fighters then there is against prime opponents at the top of their game. Do you acknowledge the fact that Kotelnik & Matthysse are vastly superior opponents and a level above a washed up Morales & washed up Chop Chop?
And i think you need double check your source(s) vis-a-vis Maidana/Kotelnik.
Both were clear losses. I mean Kotelnik was at least 8 rounds to 4. At least. Mathysse was like 7 to 3...lulz@10 rounders btw.
I never scored the Kotelnik fight. Watched it once live and thought the fight could've went either way.
DID re-watch and score the Matthysse fight. And i had it Alexander by a round.
Once again, the fight could've easily went either way. Wouldn't have been dissatisfied with a DRAW or Matthysse win. Far from a robbery though.
I thought Alexander won more definitive rounds than Matthysse. The only dominant rounds for Matthysse in that fight were, 4,7, & 8. While Alexander won, 2, 3, 6 & 9 pretty clearly. Every other round were back & forth toss-up rounds. Far from a robbery.
A comparison of their resume as in the OP makes it very close.
Mayweather's best win is Chico
Ho-Hum
Only to the untrained eye of a boxrec/wikipedia scholar
I remember thinking wow beating the John John Molina and Phillip Holidays of the World...That's amazing.
And struggling with Phillip Holiday at that.
IMHO, I believe Stevie Johnston would've boxed circles around Mosley @ 135.
Good win, but was not a dominant champ when Mayweather beat him, was it his first defence, and did not do too much at lightweight overall. Undisciplined, ate too much and seem to take it easy on training.
JLC and Corrales, maybe comparable to Cotto's best wins, but not better, and should he beat Pacquiao, then it not even close.
Pretty laughable assertion.
Cotto, Castillo & Corrales all have about comparably even resumes as it stands right now.
It can be argued that both Castillo & Corrales have greater resumes than Cotto. There's nobody on Cotto's resume outside of Mosley, that are even close to being as good as either Castillo or Corrales.
JLC is better then Cotto IMO the best lightweight of his era and how long was Cotto the man in his division exactly? and who did Cotto ever beat that was ranked #1?
That's a damn good question.
10 years into his career, and in his 3rd weight class. He still to this day hasn't beaten a divisional lineal champion or a fighter that was regarded as #1 in their division. Floyd's done it 4 times. Both Castillo & Corrales have done it at least once. Cotto... we're still waiting for him to beat just a top 5 rated fighter at Junior Middleweight.
Cotto never even beat a top 5 ranked fighter @ Junior Welterweight
No sir. Not a chance.
As of right now, Mayweather's run @ 130 > Cotto's whole career.
Cotto has a lot of catching up to do. But it would be a good start.
Mosley WHILE ON EPO would take a clear, emphatic decision.
Mosley WITHOUT EPO would still take the fight, but it would be a war.
I can say this though, with certainty. If Mosley while @ Lightweight had to face the same fighters that Castillo faced at Lightweight. He would've left the division with 3 or 4 losses at the very least.
Let me put it in retard terms for the slow ones out there. When Floyd doesn't fight for 1.5-2 years, "one legged jews" are worth more on a resume than your girlfriend because the jew was actually sanctioned. If Floyd actually FOUGHT it wouldn't even be up for debate but when you don't fight, fighting just about ANYONE hurts your legacy.
I would prefer Floyd not to fight at all than to partake in a circus fight with some clown sporting forrest gump knees and a heavily padded record.
But that's just me...
Also, Floyd's work @ 130 > Cotto's entire career
BTW, in that one year that Floyd took off, he had the exact same number of meaningful wins as Cotto. :lol1:
depends on your definition of elite Chico was ranked Top 5 P4P by Ring that would put him there with the elites
I could argue that Cotto was never an elite because he won vacant belts and lost or struggled with the top guys in his division
In a historical sense, neither Cotto or Corrales are "elite". But in contemporary context, both are elite.
No way in hell can Cotto be considered "elite" if Corrales isn't. They both are practically the same caliber of fighter, with about even resumes. Which makes the Cotto-Mayweather comparison that much funnier. Because Mayweather has not only beaten several Cotto-level fighters, but has straight lopsidedly DOMINATED Cotto-level fighters. Where are Cotto's dominant wins over Mayweather-level fighters? Where are Cotto's wins PERIOD over fighters of Mayweather's caliber? :thinking:
It's one of the more sickening things about boxing in the modern age. Multiple "world champs" in a single weight class is a complete and utter contradiction, and it denigrates the sport.
Any real boxing fan doesn't even pay attention to who's holding what alphabet soup title. If it ain't the RING title. Or if the strap doesn't carry lineage, It should be regarded as equally worthless as a regional title.