This is in response to the "Would Cotto be better than Floyd all-time if he beats Pacquiao" thread.
Miguel Cotto's notable resume:
2002: Justin Juuko (36-6-1)- W TKO5
2003: Cesar Bazan (39-5-1)- W TKO11
2003: Carlos Maussa (17-0)- W TKO8
2004: Victorian Sosa (37-3-2)- W TKO4
2004: Lovemore N'dou (38-6-1)- W UD12
2004: Kelson Pinto (21-0)- W TKO6
2004: Randall Bailey (28-4)- W TKO6
2005: Demarus Corley (29-3-1)- W TKO5
2005: Ricardo Torres (28-0)- W KO7
2006: Paulie Malignaggi (21-0)- W UD12
2006: Carlos Quintana (23-0)- W RTD5
2007: Zab Judah (34-4)- W TKO11
2007: Shane Mosley (44-4)- W UD12
2008: Antonio Margarito (36-5)- L TKO11
2009: Michael Jennings (34-1)- W TKO5
2009: Joshua Clottey (35-2)- W SD12
2009: Manny Pacquiao (49-3-2)- L TKO12
2010: Yuri Foreman (28-0)- W TKO9
2011: Ricardo Mayorga (29-7-1)- W TKO12
2011: Antonio Margarito (38-7)- W RTD10
Floyd Mayweather's notable resume:
1998: Genaro Hernandez (38-1-1)- W RTD8
1998: Angel Manfredy (25-2-1)- W TKO2
1999: Justin Juuko (33-2-1)- W KO9
1999: Carlos Gerena (34-2)- W RTD7
2000: Gregorio Vargas (40-6-1)- W UD12
2001: Diego Corrales (33-0)- W TKO10
2001: Carlos Hernandez (33-2-1)- W UD12
2001: Jesus Chavez (35-1)- W RTD9
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (45-4-1)- W UD12
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (46-5-1)- W UD12
2003: Victoriano Sosa (35-2-2)- W UD12
2003: Phillip N'dou (31-1)- W TKO7
2004: DeMarcus Corley (28-2-1)- W UD12
2005: Arturo Gatti (39-6)- W RTD6
2006: Zab Judah (34-3)- W UD12
2006: Carlos Baldomir (43-9-6)- W UD12
2007: Oscar De La Hoya (38-4)- W SD12
2007: Ricky Hatton (43-0)- W TKO10
2009: Juan Manuel Marquez (50-4-1)- W UD12
2010: Shane Mosley (46-5)- W UD12
2011: Victor Ortiz (29-2-2)- W KO4
What do YOU think???
You can't brag about how much the new trainer supposedly helped him and Cotto beating Margarito 9-0 and then say "regardless if Margarito is not a quality opponent."
The question is could he have done it if he was facing a quality opponent. And, that has yet to be answered. And, I personally doubt he could. But, that's just my opinion.
the answer is yes, I think he could beat a quality opponent at 154. Not Mayweather quality, but a tier higher than Margarito's and Mayorga's.
Too bad he never fought the best at welter, while Cotto took his lunps and fought all..
Maybe Cotto should've retired or fought Baldomir to be equal.
Mayweather's retirement and ducking of Margarito gets zero points with me.
At least Cotto fought Murderer's row in their prime.
co-sign this...
The reason he did that in the blue is because of the reason you mentioned in the green.
Until you see Cotto against a quality opponent it is difficult to say how much the trainer is truly helping him.
And, if anyone views Cotto as undefeated then they're nothing but dickriding idiots.
I simply say that because he beat Margarito with the new trainer. He worked on everything that needed to be worked on from the first fight they had.
-He didn't lay on the ropes and take flush uppercuts like in the first fight
-He refused to brawl with Margarito
-He circled around the ring forcing Margarito to lunge his right hook to which Cotto responded to with a jab
Basically what I'm saying is that he beat Margarito 9 rounds to 0 with his new trainer. Regardless if Margarito is not a quality opponent, Cotto still lost to him in the first fight. I just wouldn't be so quick to rule Cotto out.
Definately Mayweather.
Cotto's last 3 opponents were no where near quality type opponents. He had to go twelve with Mayorga..
But I will say that Cotto dominated Margarito in epic fashion and completely outboxed him even if he couldn't get a KD or if it was stopped early. I think Cotto's new trainer helps out a lot. So I wouldn't write Cotto off at all. He is, in fact undefeated in most people's minds.
Just goes to show you how dumb people are on here. I could post something that said Cotto vs. Leonard at 147, who wins??? And it'd be probably be only a difference of like 30-40 votes out of a couple hundred, that's how many blind Cotto fans there are on here.
u already kno bro. cotto fans are completely irrational.
Only a difference of 30 votes. This shows how much of a joke floyd is lol. How can you compare him to Pacquiao when his resume struggles to compete with cottos. :lol1: :lol1: :wave:
Just goes to show you how dumb people are on here. I could post something that said Cotto vs. Leonard at 147, who wins??? And it'd be probably be only a difference of like 30-40 votes out of a couple hundred, that's how many blind Cotto fans there are on here.
Only a difference of 30 votes. This shows how much of a joke floyd is lol. How can you compare him to Pacquiao when his resume struggles to compete with cottos. :lol1: :lol1: :wave:
Obviously he was overrated, but weight was an issue because ricky was givig up any small chance he has for a competiive fight.
Weight wasn't an issue.
He had the same chance of winning at 147 as he did at 140.
Think about this. Is either going into the hof? Prob not. Defintely not hatton and if corrales does, it'll prob be a sympathy vote.
Yes, but the reason I brought that up was because they were comparing Hatton and Corrales (both Top 10 P4P at the time) being undefeated........to Torres, Malignaggi, Quintana, and Foreman being undefeated. You don't think that's ridiculous???
Hatton was a good win, and Corrales was a really good win, given the perception going into the fight, and the fact Diego still had a pretty good career after he got dominated by Floyd. Floyd was the underdog in that fight, and he absolutely dominated Corrales. I think that's part of the reason that so many people discredit that win and don't look at it like it's a great win.
If it was up to the majority of people on this site, EVERYONE Floyd fought was bullcrap and he never beat anyone of note.
And if Mayweather-Pacquiao isn't made, I am hoping for Mayweather-Cotto at 154, just so some of the Cotto stans can shut up. Cotto is past his prime-still good, pretty much the same guy he was in 09' when he fought Manny, only at SWW now. Mayweather is past his prime-still good, pretty much the same guy he was when he fought Mosley in 10'.
If Floyd fights Cotto at 154 though and he beats him, he still probably won't get any credit, especially from Pacquiao fans. And I was NEVER a fan of the whole "left-overs" thing either. So......was Ali Frazier's left-overs at the time that Ken Norton beat him??? Was Hearns left-overs after Ray beat him??? NO.
Was Hatton Floyd's left overs when Manny beat him??? NO.
All that means is that Floyd gets more credit for it because he beat Hatton first and the better version of Hatton. But, Manny still gets his due for that win, because Hatton was past his prime-still good, coming off 2 solid wins, and Manny beat him at 140.
If Floyd beats Cotto at 154, he gets his due for that win, but Manny still gets more because he did it first.
Actually Hatton was #4 P4P when Floyd fought him. How do people not remember that Corrales and Hatton were both Top 5 P4P when they fought FLoyd??? These people have such short memories on NSB.
Think about this. Is either going into the hof? Prob not. Defintely not hatton and if corrales does, it'll prob be a sympathy vote.
Weight wasn't an issue, it was simply a case in which a fighter was grossly overrated.
Obviously he was overrated, but weight was an issue because ricky was givig up any small chance he has for a competiive fight.
I don't get it. What super strong guy has Hatton mauled effectively? Tszyu was strong but NEVER an inside fighter. Never. Hatton is strong yes. But against Mayweather? Hell nah.
This i agree 100% with. Floyd allowed ricky to move him when he wanted amd shifted ricky wherever he wanted whenever he wanted.
I also though floyd looked stroger than shane in a big way.
At 147 ricky lost his advantages. At the end of the collazo fight he was grtting used up like collazo was throwing his little sister around.
Hatton was? Ortiz was? Baldomir was? They were all top 5 in their division, how many top P4P are there in one division? Try again.
Actually Hatton was #8 P4P when Floyd fought him. How do people not remember that Corrales and Hatton were both Top 10 P4P when they fought FLoyd??? These people have such short memories on NSB.
Chico (R.I.P) never was a top 10 P4P fighter, juste like Hatton.He's mainly famous because of his brawls with Castillo. And he was drained when he fought Floyd.
And no, just no, Floyd 130-135 isn't greater than "anything Cotto has done"
Are you ****in serious??
And as far as Hernandez, Jesus Chavez being great wins...I just don't know man...
Actually when Corrales fought Mayweather, he was ranked #5 P4P by the RING. And Hatton was ranked #8 P4P when he fought Floyd by the RING. So......yes they were???
Just look at each guys best wins, how could you not favor Floyd??? If you think Cotto's is better, than you must think Cotto is an ATG, which he isn't quite yet.
How were his wins over both Hernandez' and Chavez not good wins??? Genaro Hernandez had only lost once 3 years earlier to Oscar, and was the recognized Top Super Featherweight at the time. Also, Carlos Hernandez and Jesus Chavez hadn't lost in like 4-5 years, both were prime, and would go on to be World title holders, and have fights with Erik Morales, who EVERYONE says is legendary. So yes, G. Hernandez, C. Hernandez, and Chavez were good wins.
And yes, Floyd at 130-135 are better than Cotto's greatest wins.
This is in response to the "Would Cotto be better than Floyd all-time if he beats Pacquiao" thread.
Miguel Cotto's notable resume:
2003: Carlos Maussa (17-0)- W TKO8
2004: Lovemore N'dou (38-6-1)- W UD12
2004: Randall Bailey (28-4)- W TKO6
2005: Demarus Corley (29-3-1)- W TKO5
2005: Ricardo Torres (28-0)- W KO7
2006: Paulie Malignaggi (21-0)- W UD12
2006: Carlos Quintana (23-0)- W RTD5
2007: Zab Judah (34-4)- W TKO11
2007: Shane Mosley (44-4)- W UD12
2009: Joshua Clottey (35-2)- W SD12
2010: Yuri Foreman (28-0)- W TKO9
Floyd Mayweather's notable resume:
1998: Genaro Hernandez (38-1-1)- W RTD8
1999: Carlos Gerena (34-2)- W RTD7
2001: Diego Corrales (33-0)- W TKO10
2001: Carlos Hernandez (33-2-1)- W UD12
2001: Jesus Chavez (35-1)- W RTD9
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (45-4-1)- W UD12
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (46-5-1)- W UD12
2004: DeMarcus Corley (28-2-1)- W UD12
2005: Arturo Gatti (39-6)- W RTD6
2006: Zab Judah (34-3)- W UD12
2006: Carlos Baldomir (43-9-6)- W UD12
2007: Oscar De La Hoya (38-4)- W SD12
2007: Ricky Hatton (43-0)- W TKO10
2009: Juan Manuel Marquez (50-4-1)- W UD12
2010: Shane Mosley (46-5)- W UD12
2011: Victor Ortiz (29-2-2)- W KO4
What do YOU think???
I deleted some names of their resumes, that's what it's supposed to be like IMO. Clearly Floyd. You can't add Margarito 2008 and Pacquiao 2009, for Cotto, cause he did not win those fights. And then Margarito in 2011 and Mayorga are both shit fights that are not worth adding there.