Ppv numbers will crumble, if they even release them... people dont even know floyds fighting.
Not even Floyd knows who he is fighting.
"Who is Guerrero? Who has he fought? I'm no Berto" - Floyd Mayweather
Besides the constant movement and effective countering by Rigo, what helped Rigo was that he is a southpaw that protects his head well. Nonito's power comes from his left hook BUT like I said, it was rarely available due to Rigo being a southpaw, his shoulder rolls then combine it with his movement and countering it made for one long night for Nonito
Canelo is not ready for Floyd. He needs to gain more experience and improve a lot on his stamina. It was crazy on how exhausted he looked after throwing so few punches. If Trout had more in him, that fight could have been disastrous for Canelo.
Marquez was asked to fight at 147? I'm pretty sure he challenged Floyd at 147. Don't make **** up. And even with that said, Floyd did not outweigh him by 20lbs. That simply didn't happen
Marquez wasn't asked to fight at 147, he called out Floyd for a pay day. get the facts straight for starters (you're painting this as Floyd picking on smaller fighters)
The "couple pounds" was referring to the weight difference that Floyd had over Marquez at the weigh in
You're basically saying its OK for a guy to ballon back up to his walking around weight of 170+ against a gut who can't even make the 154 limit, but it isn't OK to fight a guy who called you out for a fight at 147? yeah, head scratcher
Oh thanks for reminding me about Floyd fans other excuse ..... Marquez asked to fight at 147 ...... so all bets are off.
First of all it was supposed to be at 144. Floyd didn't come in so he cheated! BUT more importantly, why didn't Floyd just go down a few pounds if you all say its so easy for those other guys to come down 15-20lbs and balloon back up?
The rules have it that it's OK to balloon up ..... but there is also a problem for the one ballooning up in that it can sap out their energy if done wrong. That may be the reason why Canelo looked so gassed out last night. So you can actually lose your advantage.
Floyd is a gym rat so he does not balloon up. Floyd fans keep on saying that is smart of Floyd because while his opponents are always thinking about having to lose or come in on weight, Floyd concentrates on training. I tend to agree BUT now "oh poor Floyd, he shouldn't fight guys at 154 because he is too small"
If Floyd can't fight at 154 then he shouldn't BUT if he can and he does then all fighters that can make 154 are game. Are you guys saying that Floyd should be a cherry picker? :thinking:
Marquez fight was a difference of a couple pounds, nobody is calling the Guerrero fight a great fight
I don't see the comparisons here, how can you compare a 20lb effective weight advantage the same as Floyd fighting Guerrero at
147? bizarre
Bizarre? Last time I checked, both fighters need to make something called a weight limit. If they come in 20lbs heavier on fight night, it's accepted according to the boxing rules. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
Secondly, Floyd has a title there and his last fight was at 154.
Marquez: See this is why I will never buy your (Floyd fans) comparisons. Marquez was a 130 fighter who had just moved up to 135 and was asked to fight at 147 yet you guys are saying "that was just a few pounds difference"...... now that is bizarre logic!
Sorry but you lost the argument right there!!!
Of course weight matters, why do you think Floyd continues to fight smaller guys (Marquez/Guerrero)
but when we bring up Floyd taking on the smaller Marquez who was only used to fighting at 130 and recently 135, Floyd fans say that the size difference didn't matter. They like to have it both ways ..... sad but true.
Imagine Marquez going from being hit by smaller 130-135 fighters to 147 .... according to Floyd fans, that was OK because Marquez was P4P #2 ..... but then it should be more true for the #1 P4P Floyd to fight someone where he holds a title, right?
Why are u still talking about the Marquez thing? Floyd didn't make the contracted weight. It happens. Only time it happened to Floyd. And he still didn't have 20lbs on Marquez. But he's a cheater? Then anyone who doesn't make weight is a cheater rite? So Manny is a cheater? And where do u draw the line? Floyd didn't make weight, but he wasn't vastly larger than Marquez. Canelo will be vastly larger than Floyd, but that's not cheating because he made weight right? Sure canelo probably struggles to do so, but the benefit of being so much larger than your opponent definitely shows as well. People have to just be honest with themselves, its ok to want to see Floyd lose. But if u are saying that Camelot is a threat, based on what we have seen, then why is he a threat? Size, and maybe age. Two things that have little or nothing to do with skill or ability.
Marquez was NOT a WW not even a JWW. He was a guy who had just moved up from 130 to 135. You guys are OK with Marquez fighting a guy that fights several divisions above his for a living but are so so concerned about a Canelo who probably for the first time fought a true legit JMW. Floyd fought 2 JMW. So Floyd has the advantage! lol!
You keep on bringing up Manny but I doubt you were defending Manny when he was not able to get up to the weight limit yet he had to fight guys that came 15-20lbs heavier than him on fight night .... right?
Everything is taken into account on why one is favored over the other. IF they can make the 154 weight limit then there is no excuse if Floyd keeps on fighting at 154. Floyd said that he wanted to see Cotto comfortable at 154. So was that just an excuse? Cherry pick?
Again, Are you guys saying that Floyd should be a cherry picker?
K
Lol, so not making weight is cheating? So Manny pacquiao is a cheater then? And I personally think this is a fight Floyd should take, but I'm just saying ppl should be honest. Outside of his size, this kid is simply not a threat. And if the only way ppl see Floyd losing is by fighting bigger fighters, then that's what it is. Don't sit here and act like he's gonna be going into a fair contest against a guy his size.
Floyd paid Marquez so he didn't have to come down. So what if Canelo pays Floyd and doesn't struggle to make 154 and just goes down to 157. You OK with that?
Look, I think Canelo still needs to gain more experience and get control of his stamina issues or else I believe Floyd wins. So I agree, Canelo is not the threat that some are making him out to be BUT according to Canelo's statement, Floyd was OK with fighting a green Canelo of a year or two ago. So it looks like your Floyd does NOT like to fight a fair contest but I'm sure you would be sh$tting on that, right? If you say yes, then why you don't say the same about some of Floyd's other fights that we just discussed?
Canelo clearly has more to work on but he is moving in the right direction.
When did Manny fight a guy with a 20lb weight advantage? Even lottery didn't have that advantage. Neither did Margarito. And once again, I never said I had a problem with this fight. I don't. If it happens it happens. Should Floyd have to take it? No. Should he? Yes. But like I said, u wanna talk about weight like it doesn't matter, when its the only thing that gives u a chance in a fight, then it is the determining factor. So weight matters and a 20lb weight advantage shouldn't be ignored like its some little thing. Its not. Its all the difference between life and death. But that's what j get when u have keyboard warriors who have never stepped in the ring themselves. Its more like play for them. And its easy to ignore the truth.
Just like you are looking at the possibility that Canelo can come in 15-20lbs more there was that possibility that guys like Clottey, Margarito, .... could have as well. Didn't Clottey come in at 170 against Corrales?
So Manny still fought them guys that were much bigger than him and where there was the possibility of having his opponents come in at 15-20lbs more than him. Floyd has said he can fight and beat anyone at 147 and 154. So if someone can make 154 then it doesn't matter how much they come in on fight night. It's not against the rules.
Weight matters, power matters, skills matter .... like I said IT ALL MATTERS!!! When Gatti lost to Baldomir at WW, was it because Baldomir was more skilled? No, he was built more like a tank and that made him win. Was it fair? Well, it depends on how you look at it. If you fight at WW then you need to beat everyone at WW not just those who you think you can beat. Same with Floyd at JMW.
We just went from Floyd can't at 160 against Martinez to Floyd can't fight Martinez at 154 because Martinez has not fought at 154 in years to Floyd can't fight a 154lb Canelo who has been primarily fighting smaller WWs. So Josesito Lopez, a recent JWW can fight Canelo but Floyd for some reason can't according to the "protect Floyd at all cost" fans of his ..... lol!
Again, should Floyd be cherry picking even though he has fought at 154 twice and they have said that he could beat anyone at 147 and 154?
Final point is that Floyd's team had always said that its skills not size that pays the bills when referring to big guys will beat Floyd..... now it's a different story?
Canelo weighed 172lbs, Floyd weighs 150 the day of the fight against Cotto, 151 vs DLH. Sergio is around 174 for his fights. Floyd isn't a JMW, I think brute forcing Floyd out of the ring by putting him up against a super middleweight/light heavyweight doesn't really prove anything if he were to lose to either guy. His skill alone would most likely handle Canelo but I would not bet money on Floyd winning either fight, and that doesn't take anything away from Floyd as a fighter
Some people are going to say he shouldn't have fought at 154 twice if he weren't willing to take the division seriously and I agree 100%, he shouldn't expect the fans and media to not criticize him for avoiding certain fights @154 since he fought there twice
But weight classes do matter, both Trout and Canelo are middleweights masquerading as JMW, let's stop pretending otherwise
The problem in this logic is that Floyd then turns around and fights guys that fought 0, 1 or 2 fights at WW and all his fans say they were great fights that show that Floyd is the best.
YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!
Once Floyd and his fans see risk, they begin to bring up excuses but when names such as Marquez who went up ~3 divisions, that was a good fight because Marquez was #2 P4P.
Well, Floyd has been #1 P4P for a while, his last fight was at 154 and Floyd said he wants to see his opponents come in at a comfortable weight ..... so no excuses!!!
Haven't you guys noticed Mayweathers game plan??? Canelo is tailor made for Floyd, you guys are hyping Canelo up only to tear him down after he loses a UD to Floyd.
Mayweather is a master of illusion. And you guys fall for it each time...
He had you guys saying that he was scared of Mosley and that Mosley would beat him...and what happened??
He basically gets up in haters feelings, get them all pumped...
Mayweather is a master cherry picker, his whole thing is to make you feel like a easy opponent is dangerous to him and boom...
Canelo still needs to gain experience and fix his stamina issues. So in a way you are right about Canelo .... the funny thing is that Floyd's fans are just looking at the possibility of Floyd losing and it makes them go into "protect mode".
Well to be honest.....as a Mayweather fan, I thought Trout would have been the tougher fight for Floyd. We'll see though. After watching both fight each other, I'm fully convinced even though both are over 20 lbs bigger than Floyd, Floyd beats both.
Canelo can't take off 2:30 a round, land 2-3 significant punches, fight with his hands down, and beat Mayweather.
..... but that is exactly what he did last night and won
Arguably. After re-watching, it's not a robbery. It's really a fight where one person favoring one thing could get on a roll with the rounds. It was a close fight.
And Floyd and Trout are two different fighters....Trout really just used his jab, and isn't nearly as accurate as Floyd. He can't fight that way and beat Mayweather. Castillo, the only guy who came close to beating Floyd, I had him winning the first fight by a point, fought 100% hard for 12 rounds. Canelo gasses after 4 rounds.
That is why I think Floyd has a very good chance of beating Canelo at this point in time. Canelo is still on a learning curve and has terrible stamina issues. If that was Floyd and he knew that he was losing, Canelo would pay .... so Canelo better get that thing fixed FAST!!!
It may have something to do with going down to 154 then back up to 170+. People are more worried for Floyd than realizing that it may be hurting Canelo.
I just finished saying that in another thread.
Sometimes people think because he is young that he should have lots of stamina but often the opposite is true. With age and the closer he gets to hitting his prime, that is when he will have better stamina ....HOPEFULLY .... because right now, his opponents can take advantage of his stamina issues.
He was doing very little yet he was way more exhausted than Trout who had been throwing consistently throughout the round.
Another thing that may contribute to the stamina issues is if Canelo had issues making weight.
shocked me...in always knew the king loss was early stoppage but i didnt think he would take the pressure well...
First couple of rounds Stiverne was a bit tentative but he surely turned it a round once he knocked down Arreola. When I saw that, I said, no way is Arreola going to win this once.
Arreola's punches were not crisp and he was out of shape. Stiverne was way more effective and you can see that he had a plan. Stiverne made Arreola pay the price for coming in that kind of shape. Those body shots really hurt Arreola. It stopped him in his tracks on several occasions.
Other than Pacquiao fans, who gives him credit for that win? Mosley couldn't even beat Sergio Mora in the fight before Manny, Alvarez and Pacquiao beat a totally SHOT fighter.
They all did (fight a Mosley that was no longer the Mosley we knew) .... Mosley was gassed out early in the Floyd fight.
You know what always troubled me? Pacquiao gets credit for Mosley but the very next fight Canelo doesn't?
I didn't think anyone gave Pacquiao credit for beating Mosley, really. Nobody wanted the fight in the first place and it signalled the start of Manny's decline.
manny is their god ... that's why. You didn't know that? lol and Floyd STILL beat him first and he doesn't get credit either.
The answer usually is found somewhere in the middle .... so I say Enzo is the most accurate .....
Mosley according to Floyd was OLD and stated so BEFORE his fight "My game plan will take into consideration that Mosley is now OLD" ..... you have to take advantage of your fighters weaknesses and Floyd was READY to do so ..... he was not before then when he refused to fight Mosley on several occasions.
Good post.
I've stated this before, there are many unanswered questions for both guys, we'll find out tonight.
I agree .... it also depends if the opponent can figure out the others weaknesses and/or take advantage of their own strength's.
Trout was able to take away Cotto's strengths by keeping distance and providing enough movement to keep Cotto away. That said, it may end up being easier to do it with the smaller Cotto than the bigger Canelo .......
Similarly, Cotto at times was able to cut that distance and get at Trout in the middle rounds ...... so would a bigger Canelo be able to do it better and with more consistency ? Although Canelo, like Cotto, fights in spurts which contributed to Cotto's loss.
These questions will be answered tonight.
Cloud needs to set before throwing his punch. Every time Cloud would get ready to throw a punch, all Hopkins had to do is move a bit to the left or to the right ..... Cloud would then reset.
"I don't even know what a steroid is." - Manny Pacquiao
"If Manny calls out Floyd's bluff by accepting random testing and Floyd puts out another roadblock, I will agree and call Floyd the ducker" - Walter White
LOL discussion over. Exposed as hypocrites who are only putting Floyd on a pedestal.
Please explain yourself. Cotto, Margarito and Mosley are not known to boxing fans as duckers. Floyd is known to be very selective at best but there are too many red flags now.
2008 Paul Williams was avenging his loss to Quintana, and then moved up to JMW and MW. By 2009 he was already a MW, 2010 he was a MW too. So I don't know why you're mentioning Williams in the years that you are mentioning him. I can go along with the thread, but in an intelligent manner. Let's say he ducked Williams in 2007.
Williams called out Floyd and was willing to fight him at any weight .... Floyd never responded/agreed. So which of the two didn't want the fight? I say its Floyd. What do you think?
Would you two add Williams as a fighter Cotto, Margarito, Mosley ducked too? Because he didn't specifically called out Mayweather and only Mayweather. He called out Cotto, he called out Margarito after beating Cotto, he called out Mosley when Mosley was feeling brave calling every one out after beating Margarito, and he called out Mayweather.
Yes he specifically called out Floyd.
He did fight Margarito but was Williams was avoided by many? Yes!
The difference with the other guys you mentioned is that they were in many other wars. So I can't ever ever say Cotto is a ducker nor Margarito nor Mosley. I gave Floyd many chances but after a while you need to call it for what it is.
Like I said, nobody refuses drug testing. Automatic red flag. He had the opportunity multiple times to prove he could pass stricter drug testing, and always refused. No need to ask why - his actions speak louder than words.
I see an automatic red flag in your post!
williams asked to fight cotto right after he beat margarito so i guess cotto ducked him and when margarito beat cotto williams called out margarito so i guess margarito duckked williams too.margarito fought williams because he was going to get stripped of his tittle if not margarito was not planning on fighting williams
Who ducked? You just said that Margarito fought Williams, right? Trust me, if it was Floyd, he would figure a way to not fight Williams. Injury, vacation, "it's a business", ......
I believe that is when Cotto was fighting Mosley. Which was a tough fight for Cotto as well. Then after that Williams was facing Quintana back to back while Cotto fought another tough opponent that he lost to named Margarito.
Cotto may have ducked Williams. I don't know because Cotto had a rough skid after the Mosley fight.
The point is that these other names are not known to duck fighters. Just look at their resume. They fought wars while Floyd took a long vacation.
Trust me, I would have no problem naming anyone a ducker if they deserved to be called so.
Floyd was calling EVERYONE out from lightweight to welterweight when he was budding as a star, when all the top dogs were in their prime. A lot of them didn't give him a fight(Shane, DLH, etc.) when they were on top, so maybe he is still mad about that and is doing the same thing to everyone else. Maybe he feels that he's earned the right to do whatever he wants now since he's the top dog. I think he really learned from DLH when he finally gave Floyd a fight. He dictated EVERYTHING, from ring size, to gloves, to weight, to conference/touring schedule, to venue, to purse, to PPV cut, EVERYTHING. Now he's making everyone fight on his terms.
Talk is cheap.
Did he not call out Manny during the Ortiz press conference and many other times. See talk is cheap when it comes to Floyd!
When it got to be a real possibility to fight Mosley and Floyd knew that Mosley was available and calling him out in late 2006/2007 Floyd said NO every time!!!
When they fought (Mosley vs FLoyd) Floyd knew that Mosley was old and inactive.
Every time I see threads about the Durans, Hearns, Haglers and SRLs and then I read Floyd's name ..... all I see is "one of these names has a very weak resume and was not even willing to fight the best of his own era let alone past greats and his name is Floyd"
One look at who he would have to face and Floyd would have retired or move down a division!!!