Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Hey man, how's things?

We've discussed this before, you're being extremely harsh.

As it not occurred to you, that certain fights couldn't be made for various reasons, and that's why he moved divisions?

How could he have fought Eubank, when Eubank has admitted that it would have been suicide to have fought Roy at his peak, and he was happy defending his WBO belt on SKY against the likes of Close, Schommer and Amaral etc?

You're just reeling off names. Watson? How was that viable? Roy beat the main man at 168, in James Toney. Again, fights with Liles and Benn were hard to make because of the purse splits, and because of Don King and The Levin Brothers.

Roy them moved up to 175 and accomplished all he could, apart from fighting Dariusz M. Neither fighter wanted to travel. Hopkins then priced himself out of a rematch, and then Roy moved up to HW.

Ruiz wasn't great, but Roy was a 34 year old LHW, who'd had almost 50 fights. Afterwards, he wanted huge money to stay there. He walked away from a contract to fight Sanders, to instead pursue a fight with Tyson. They met in 2003, and they wanted to fight in 2004. But it never happened because both fighters got stopped in bad defeats. Lewis made noises about rematching Vitali and fighting Roy, but then he decided to retire, stating that he'd lost his hunger etc. We've discussed Holyfield before.

The reason he fought Tarver, was because he couldn't get the mega money that he wanted at HW, and Tarver had baited him all year. Roy fought Tarver at nearly 35. A 35 year old LHW, who's had 50 fights, doesn't want to be fighting dangerous fights against Tua, Sanders and Vitali etc. None of those highly dangerous fights would have generated the same amount of money that a Tyson fight would have brought.

You need to give Roy a break. You can't just reel of names and say he should have fought all of these guys. It's never that simple.

That's all fine and dandy,,, yes I'm being harsh on Roy, if your willing to say he is top 20 atg then you better show me some great wins, not just highlight reels of frazier, Brannon, etc..
To me Roy's resume is clearly too thin to be top 20... I don't it's being harsh when I say he is top 50 atg

The point of the thread is if he is top 20 atg, and your whole post clearly shows a guy without the resume to be top 20 atg

[BennyST]

I think the problem is that when we have talent thats far superior to whats around at its time we punish them for it. Roy was by far better than his competition, so people's nature is to think everyone else must be sorry and he couldnt be that good. He just made his competition seem horrible he was faster and stronger and lightning quick in offense and defense. The guy WON THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP! HE WAS A MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION. Its just like how people were talking about Canelo before he fought floyd...it was gonna be a test and possibly Floyds first loss, by ko even. But Floyd outclassed him so badly and was just so much better people didnt give him credit but more hate. as opposed to just saying damn he's one boxing mf. No people dont like to give credit where credit is due. this generation hates skills and love brawls, youre supposed to see how many times you can get hit as opposed to using defense and offense. But Roy will be held in high regard forever. If you dominate your era thats all you can do so yes he's an ATG. OUT OF EVERYBOXER THAT HAS LACED UP GLOVES He is the only boxer in history to start his career as a light middleweight (154 lbs) and go on to win a heavyweight title. STOP HATING

ALSO he won the WBA Heavyweight title, becoming the first former middleweight champion to win a heavyweight title in 106 years

IF THAT AINT ATG WORTHY THEN YOU GUYS NEED A DIFFERENT SPORT.

Yeah, that last one doesn't really sit though. Where was Ruiz realistically ranked? 4th, 5th, 6th? It sure as hell wasn't number 1, and since there have been a lot of guys past that have probably started at middleweight and beaten a top 10/top 5 heavyweight, it's really just a sign of modern politics and money in titles.

He wasn't the champion, so still did not achieve the same feat anyway. He isn't the first middleweight to become a heavyweight champion in 106 years, because he didn't become the heavyweight champion as Fitz did. He beat what is, in reality, nothing more than a top ten/five contender. That's happened quite a lot in those 106 years. They just weren't lucky enough to have a 'world heavyweight champion' title attached to most contenders like Roy did.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

If people are crapping on Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Griffin, Johnson, etc, you know the guys RJJ beat, then I can only imagine what they would say if he actually beat Michael Nunn, Eubanks, Collins ect....

Especially when the guys RJJ beat had already beaten guys like Nunn, Eubanks, COllins, etc.

If you schit on the guys Jones beat, how can you say he "should've" fought the guys who he beat had already beaten?

Lastly, after Nunn fought James Toney he was done. I can't for the life of me figure out why/how someone could big up Michael Nunn post James Toney who did absolutely NOTHING

@lacedup.

This is the

[LacedUp]

@lacedup.

This is the

I know.

It still doesn't make sense. Especially as what he's saying is not even correct.

[IronDanHamza]

When did Roy fight malinga,, I thought Trinidad fought that dude in between Reid and Vargas fights,,, is that the same guy? My mind drawing a blank on him n Roy,, was it early like 92,93



I just don't get how Roy went from the Goat p4p 1 after the Ruiz fight, to completely garbage after that.. No other ATG fighter ever fell so quickly,, never scored another meaningful win, I think Roy's over reliance on his athletic ability caused him to just drop like a stone when they faded



I said Benitez had amazing reflexes and timing,, i don't think he is anywhere near as athletically explosive as Roy was,, I could never see Benitez doing the power shots like Roy could do, like vs virgil hill body shot...
But you actually make a good point about Wilfredo, he is like Roy a lot, where neither guy relied on fundamentals and once they slipped it was all down hill, only difference is that Wilfredo screwed himself by not being serious about training, and Roy actually had an entire career and only slipped due to age, and not lack of professionalism


You can't sit here and tell me that toney is a very consistent fighter,, you never knew what toney would show up,, toney that fought mccallum and Barkley, or the toney that fought Dave Tiberi, drake thadzi,
IMO Roy fought the bad toney that didn't train.. honestly I would favor Roy over toney that fought mccallum, it would be a lot closer and but Roy's style and movement would cause any version of toney problems



Post your list my man.... I think it's really hard to pinpoint guys with a rank,,, I just kinda ballpark them because there is very little difference between guy 29 and guy thats ranked 41
My whole point is that Roy just doesn't have the resume to be in my top 20,, I couldn't rate him over guys like hagler, monzon, Duran, etc... I have him in the same league as hearns, Ike, Benny, evander and higher than toney, Hopkins, Pryor, Benitez, Tyson, napoles,

He fought Malinga in the early 90s in not sure what exact year.

Benitez wasn't explosive but what does that matter? Benitez always had habits like that. He slipped when he slowed down and drastically.

Roy Jones was slipping for a whole and showed rapid decline in the first Tarver fight then was done from the second one. He was shot from then onward thar shows nothing of his skill.

How can you say Toney didn't train for Roh Jones? How do you know that? How do you know he was out of shape even?

[toooooool]

That's all fine and dandy,,, yes I'm being harsh on Roy, if your willing to say he is top 20 atg then you better show me some great wins, not just highlight reels of frazier, Brannon, etc..
To me Roy's resume is clearly too thin to be top 20... I don't it's being harsh when I say he is top 50 atg

The point of the thread is if he is top 20 atg, and your whole post clearly shows a guy without the resume to be top 20 atg

Duran's resume is weak yet he is Ranked #8 all time..so why is it ok
for Duran but not Roy?

[soul_survivor]

I repeat

Can someone answer me this:

Why did Roy fight Hill straight after Hill had lost to Machewskilisiosis even though Machewskilioaio held all the belts?
__________________

[Big_L]

I repeat

Can someone answer me this:

Why did Roy fight Hill straight after Hill had lost to Machewskilisiosis even though Machewskilioaio held all the belts?
__________________

because he would not come to the u.s to fight.

[BigAlexSand]

Without a doubt Jones Jr is a top 20 all time great. His athletic ability is next to none (closest being SUGAR Ray Robinson). His power for his small size of only 5'11", matched with that freak like speed made him a one in a lifetime fighter. His loses were hard but his climb to heavyweight and losing one fight (legitimately) till his 50 pro bout makes him an icon. Dude was a monster of epic proportions and an agreement could be made he is a top 10!

[RubenSonny]

Post your list my man.... I think it's really hard to pinpoint guys with a rank,,, I just kinda ballpark them because there is very little difference between guy 29 and guy thats ranked 41
My whole point is that Roy just doesn't have the resume to be in my top 20,, I couldn't rate him over guys like hagler, monzon, Duran, etc... I have him in the same league as hearns, Ike, Benny, evander and higher than toney, Hopkins, Pryor, Benitez, Tyson, napoles,

I didn't make any strong claims about where Roy should be ranked, you did. I don't see how Monzons resume is clearly better than Jones anyway.