Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[robertzimmerman]

He still does it to this day

im gonna fight stevie collins

im gonna fight silva

im gonna fight kimbo

im gonna fight Martin Rogan

Im gonna fight Nick Diaz

Im gonna..........


Been doing it for years

I love roy jones,, one of my favorite fighters to watch, but alot of smoke in mirrors in his career,,,
Never really took big challenges unless absolutely had to...

G-man, benn, eubanks for a MW title,, Nah, i will fight for a vacant on an undercard vs a tuesday night fights fighter club fighter hopkins at the time

Then defended vs no one,,,,

Finally took a big fight vs toney,, won, but then defended vs no one,, the division had benn, eubanks, nunn, watson, collins, G-man, liles, all champs but roy fought byrd, vinny paz, lucas, etc

Then went to lhw and beat a bunch of weak fighters and champs like ancient mccallum, old hill, old reggie, frazier, etc

Then when his lucrative HBO contract expired, he was forced to take big fights again so it was Ruiz at heavy, ruiz was horrible,,, and then no big fights vs tyson, jirov, toney, holyfield, lewis,,, but goes back down to fight tarver, and tarver owns him

Thats basically jones' career,,, He had fat crazy toney as his best win, then nothing for a decade in terms of meaningful fights...........................



I love how everyone says GGG, serg, ward etc they dont fight anyone but bums, etc,,, yet these same motherf#ckrs think roy is top 20 ATG and he did the same thing but worse..........

LMAO,,, Roy is a great talent but career and resume sucks compared to other ATGs

Hey man, how's things?

We've discussed this before, you're being extremely harsh.

As it not occurred to you, that certain fights couldn't be made for various reasons, and that's why he moved divisions?

How could he have fought Eubank, when Eubank has admitted that it would have been suicide to have fought Roy at his peak, and he was happy defending his WBO belt on SKY against the likes of Close, Schommer and Amaral etc?

You're just reeling off names. Watson? How was that viable? Roy beat the main man at 168, in James Toney. Again, fights with Liles and Benn were hard to make because of the purse splits, and because of Don King and The Levin Brothers.

Roy then moved up to 175 and accomplished all he could, apart from fighting Dariusz M. Neither fighter wanted to travel. Hopkins then priced himself out of a rematch, and then Roy moved up to HW.

Ruiz wasn't great, but Roy was a 34 year old LHW, who'd had almost 50 fights. Afterwards, he wanted huge money to stay there. He walked away from a contract to fight Sanders, to instead pursue a fight with Tyson. They met in 2003, and they wanted to fight in 2004. But it never happened because both fighters got stopped in bad defeats. Lewis made noises about rematching Vitali and fighting Roy, but then he decided to retire, stating that he'd lost his hunger etc. We've discussed Holyfield before.

The reason he fought Tarver, was because he couldn't get the mega money that he wanted at HW, and Tarver had baited him all year. Roy fought Tarver at nearly 35. A 35 year old LHW, who's had 50 fights, doesn't want to be fighting dangerous fights against Tua, Sanders and Vitali etc. None of those highly dangerous fights would have generated the same amount of money that a Tyson fight would have brought.

You need to give Roy a break. You can't just reel of names and say he should have fought all of these guys. It's never that simple.

[BoxingIsGreat]

one of the best of all times. roy was amazing.

[soul_survivor]

Can someone answer me this:

Why did Roy fight Hill straight after Hill had lost to Machewskilisiosis even though Machewskilioaio held all the belts?

[RubenSonny]

Robinson is the goat, and was only mentioned because you asked me to list guys
He really has no use for my arguements, and your right a Charles and robinson are much more comparable, that's why I keep using Floyd and Hopkins because they are from the same era as jones



Come on, Ruben,,, you should know me better than that..I'm a fan of the sport, not of individual fighters, they all have pros and cons,,,
Just depends on thread... If this was a Roy is overrated thread I would be defending him, making a strong case about why he is atg,,,, but in a top 20 atg thread I would have to argue against it... I have Roy top 50 but not 20, and his resume is the major issue I have
As for Floyd I think he is a great fighter as well with a better resume but head to head I think Roy does him like he did Hopkins and toney but a lot closer

I meant to put fanboy I was laughing at the notion of you being a Floyd worshipper which obviously isn't true. It would be a lot easier to debate if people were providing all time lists.

[LacedUp]

Malinga arguably beat both of them and he demolished him.

Arguably yes. I thought the 10-8 round gave it to Eubank. The Benn fight was a little closer and probably a draw. Regardless, I still think this argument is a little twisted. It still doesn't put a Eubank, Collins, Benn etc on Roy Jones' resume.

[BoxingGenius27]

Arguably yes. I thought the 10-8 round gave it to Eubank. The Benn fight was a little closer and probably a draw. Regardless, I still think this argument is a little twisted. It still doesn't put a Eubank, Collins, Benn etc on Roy Jones' resume.

Do you understand the point I was making or no?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Malinga arguably beat both of them and he demolished him.

When did Roy fight malinga,, I thought Trinidad fought that dude in between Reid and Vargas fights,,, is that the same guy? My mind drawing a blank on him n Roy,, was it early like 92,93

How so?

All 3 of them relied on their talent and performer considerably worse when they slipped.

Yeah, they had more success because they wernt as shot as Roy but they still slipped and looked much worse and much less dominant.

So are they by skilled either?

I just don't get how Roy went from the Goat p4p 1 after the Ruiz fight, to completely garbage after that.. No other ATG fighter ever fell so quickly,, never scored another meaningful win, I think Roy's over reliance on his athletic ability caused him to just drop like a stone when they faded

Benitez absolutely relied on athletic ability.

You think Benitez could slip all those punches without the reflexes and talent that he possessed?

What explosiveness got to do with it? Surely you're not saying that Roy Jones success was solely down to him being explosive?

Benitez looked terrible as soon as he slipped and was shot not long after. By your logic that makes him not skilled yet you're saying he's one of the most skilled of all time.

I said Benitez had amazing reflexes and timing,, i don't think he is anywhere near as athletically explosive as Roy was,, I could never see Benitez doing the power shots like Roy could do, like vs virgil hill body shot...
But you actually make a good point about Wilfredo, he is like Roy a lot, where neither guy relied on fundamentals and once they slipped it was all down hill, only difference is that Wilfredo screwed himself by not being serious about training, and Roy actually had an entire career and only slipped due to age, and not lack of professionalism

I'll ask you a third time, what was the difference between Toney against Jones compared to Toney against everyone else?

You can't sit here and tell me that toney is a very consistent fighter,, you never knew what toney would show up,, toney that fought mccallum and Barkley, or the toney that fought Dave Tiberi, drake thadzi,
IMO Roy fought the bad toney that didn't train.. honestly I would favor Roy over toney that fought mccallum, it would be a lot closer and but Roy's style and movement would cause any version of toney problems

I meant to put fanboy I was laughing at the notion of you being a Floyd worshipper which obviously isn't true. It would be a lot easier to debate if people were providing all time lists.

Post your list my man.... I think it's really hard to pinpoint guys with a rank,,, I just kinda ballpark them because there is very little difference between guy 29 and guy thats ranked 41
My whole point is that Roy just doesn't have the resume to be in my top 20,, I couldn't rate him over guys like hagler, monzon, Duran, etc... I have him in the same league as hearns, Ike, Benny, evander and higher than toney, Hopkins, Pryor, Benitez, Tyson, napoles,

[LacedUp]

Do you understand the point I was making or no?

I completely understood the point you were trying to make, and I think it's far fetched or strange. You said, what did that make those guys? He did a better job against a fighter who had two close fights with Benn and Eubank. Where does Steve Collins fit into all of this? I hope you're not trying to use the Reggie Johnson fight for anything. Nigel Benn for instance, had proven his worth against some of the best of the time, like Barkley and McLellan - and arguably Eubank in the second fight. One or two bad performances doesn't change that.

A lot of the guys Roy Jones was fighting hadn't achieved anything at all. The same can simply not be said for those guys.

[BoxingGenius27]

I completely understood the point you were trying to make, and I think it's far fetched. You said, what did that make those guys? He did a better job against a fighter who had two close fights with Benn and Eubank. Where does Steve Collins fit into all of this? I hope you're not trying to use the Reggie Johnson fight for anything. Nigel Benn for instance, had proven his worth against some of the best of the time, like Barkley and McLellan - and arguably Eubank in the second fight. One or two bad performances doesn't change that.

Sonny Liston did a far quicker and easier job with Patterson than Ali, Foreman demolished Frazier - Ali never did.

Go back through this thread and find one of my many quotes concerning the matter. I'm getting ready for a b'day party and don't have time to keep explaining to someone that doesn't understand

[LacedUp]

Go back through this thread and find one of my many quotes concerning the matter. I'm getting ready for a b'day party and don't have time to keep explaining to someone that doesn't understand

You said "If you call the fighters Roy beat C or D level, what does that make Eubank, Nunn, Benn, Collins etc when he fought guys that beat these guys" - I think it's pretty clear what you were saying, and I fully understand I just don't agree with the notion.

Firstly, because it's not really true and secondly because these guys had actually fought at a much higher level than a lot of the guys Roy fought.