Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[New England]

Roy wasn't born fighting like Roy Jones. Call it whatever you will, who would have been able to beat Roy Jones on his best night?

skill and talent are completely different things. it's not a matter of me calling things a certain way.


roy was born with speed and power. you develop talents. you don't teach them.


roy's got the advantage of putting in his best work at around 168 lbs. there's no "168 lber" that i'd pick over roy jones, but that isn't saying much. there are very few historic level 168 lbers. it's a young division.

160 lb roy jones is an odd case. he was very big, and didn't last there long. his resume certainly doesn't come close to being great at the weight, but his speed would definitely give a lot of the historic MW problems. i don't have a problem with somebody saying that jones is a great h2h MW if they recognize that his lack of actual work at the weight means that it's unreasonable to call him unbeatable at the weight.

there are a couple of LHW i'd pick over jones. i think ezzard charles in his prime would beat him, and he's got the resume and the film for me to base that on. some of the best work in the career of mike spinks was done at HW, but i'd pick spinks at 175 over jones as well. charles and spinks beat more accomplished fighters than roy jones. charles is one of the greatest fighters of all time. a lot of people that i respect have him in the top 10, and i'm inclined to start to entertain them.


as for HW, there is a pretty long line of HW who would knock roy jones out. there's a reason he fought john ruiz instead of lennox lewis. i don't imagine you intend to imply that roy jones would be an unbeatable HW.

[!! Shawn]

I love Duran,but didn't he lose the biggest fights of his career?..Leonard2,
Benitez,Hearns,Hagler?..Don't give me the lightweight bologna,if you fight,
then you're accountable.

Duran was already well into his 30s for most of those fights.

[New England]

Despite being imprisoned for 3 years before his first fight with Frazier, I feel Ali was still in his prime against Frazier in the first fight. He beat Quarry and Bonavena before Frazier then went on to do great things post his first fight with Frazier

ali wasn't the same fighter after his layoff. everybody who worked with him acknowledges that he had lost a step.

[!! Shawn]

skill and talent are completely different things. it's not a matter of me calling things a certain way.


roy was born with speed and power. you develop talents. you don't teach them.


roy's got the advantage of putting in his best work at around 168 lbs. there's no "168 lber" that i'd pick over roy jones, but that isn't saying much. there are very few historic level 168 lbers. it's a young division.

160 lb roy jones is an odd case. he was very big, and didn't last there long. his resume certainly doesn't come close to being great at the weight, but his speed would definitely give a lot of the historic MW problems. i don't have a problem with somebody saying that jones is a great h2h MW if they recognize that his lack of actual work at the weight means that it's unreasonable to call him unbeatable at the weight.

there are a couple of LHW i'd pick over jones. i think ezzard charles in his prime would beat him, and he's got the resume and the film for me to base that on. some of the best work in the career of mike spinks was done at HW, but i'd pick spinks at 175 over jones as well. charles and spinks beat more accomplished fighters than roy jones. charles is one of the greatest fighters of all time. a lot of people that i respect have him in the top 10, and i'm inclined to start to entertain them.


as for HW, there is a pretty long line of HW who would knock roy jones out. there's a reason he fought john ruiz instead of lennox lewis. i don't imagine you intend to imply that roy jones would be an unbeatable HW.

Ezzard Charles would have a nightmare of a time with Jones. Charles Achillies Heel was unorthodox fighters who gave him angles. Joe Walcott gave him Nightmares, Roy is Joe Walcott turned up to 11.

Also, Michael Spinks is was and always has been a bum in my book. Have you ever seen him fight? Its a merricle that he managed to have the career that he did. He is so incredibly uncoordinated. The bastard child of Glen Johnson. He won, but his fights were often close, life and death affairs for him. He never made it look easy.

I do not rate him very highly in terms of skill. He had lots of will, and pumped out a solid jab.

I mean seriously...




Charles is a fight I would like to see though. Charles was undeniably great.

[LacedUp]

Despite being imprisoned for 3 years before his first fight with Frazier, I feel Ali was still in his prime against Frazier in the first fight. He beat Quarry and Bonavena before Frazier then went on to do great things post his first fight with Frazier

Below says it. Ali looked alright in his fight against Quarry, but was heavier and nowhere near the Ali we saw in the Williams fight in '65. He just adapted - which is what made him the greatest heavyweight of all times.

He wasn't improsined for 3 years btw.

ali wasn't the same fighter after his layoff. everybody who worked with him acknowledges that he had lost a step.

[BoxingGenius27]

Below says it. Ali looked alright in his fight against Quarry, but was heavier and nowhere near the Ali we saw in the Williams fight in '65. He just adapted - which is what made him the greatest heavyweight of all times.

He wasn't improsined for 3 years btw.

IDK man. Ali went on to do many great things post jail time. He looked damn good to me against Frazier, Lyle, Foreman, etc...

I think he was 29 when he got out of jail. I just disagree.

[New England]

Ezzard Charles would have a nightmare of a time with Jones. Charles Achillies Heel was unorthodox fighters who gave him angles. Joe Walcott gave him Nightmares, Roy is Joe Walcott turned up to 11.

Also, Michael Spinks is was and always has been a bum in my book. Have you ever seen him fight? Its a merricle that he managed to have the career that he did. He is so incredibly uncoordinated. The bastard child of Glen Johnson. He won, but his fights were often close, life and death affairs for him. He never made it look easy.

I do not rate him very highly in terms of skill. He had lots of will, and pumped out a solid jab.

I mean seriously...

roy jones and joe walcott do not fight alike .


you seem to think that talent is the only measurement by which a fighter is evaluated. beating comparatively crap fighters and "making it look easy" isn't as valuable as beating better fighters.

mike spinks was a part of [or was a part of the end of] the best LHW era of all time. his LHW resume is much better than roy jones. they're not even in the same conversation, and you're calling him a bum.

[LacedUp]

IDK man. Ali went on to do many great things post jail time. He looked damn good to me against Frazier, Lyle, Foreman, etc...

I think he was 29 when he got out of jail. I just disagree.

I'm not saying he didn't do some great things after coming back, probably his greatest feats came after that. But he clearly wasn't the same fighter in a physical sense - he was mentally stronger than a lot of the fighters he fought.

I don't think he ever looked that good against Frazier to be honest. But of course he had great fights vs a lot of other top guys.

Ali was never really in prison.. other than one night in the mid 60's for a minor traffic violation. I don't know where you got the 3 years from. He never actually was put in jail despite originally being sentenced.

[New England]

IDK man. Ali went on to do many great things post jail time. He looked damn good to me against Frazier, Lyle, Foreman, etc...

I think he was 29 when he got out of jail. I just disagree.

it sounds like you need to revisit some of his fights from '67 and before, my friend. he was a different fighter. his legs weren't what they used to be, and he couldn't rely on them the way he used to. he acknowledges / has acknowledged it himself.

[BoxingGenius27]

I'm not saying he didn't do some great things after coming back, probably his greatest feats came after that. But he clearly wasn't the same fighter in a physical sense - he was mentally stronger than a lot of the fighters he fought.

I don't think he ever looked that good against Frazier to be honest. But of course he had great fights vs a lot of other top guys.

Ali was never really in prison.. I don't know where you got that from.

Dude Ali was suspended because of the issue with the draft. He took time out from boxing. You know what I mean and am referring too. Please, I'm trying to watch this Cuse game and talk to you at the same time.

And tell me how "clearly" Ali wasn't the same. What was so clear about it post Ali-Frazier I?