Who is more likely to be able to beat a prime Jon Jones in a street fight Ali or Mike Tyson ?

[TMLT87]

If its in the heat of the moment like a typical Street fight and he doesn't know who Tyson is then he's almost certainly done for.

Lol so are we adding "if the MMA guy doesnt know his opponent is a world class HW boxer" to the list of conditions needed to make it seem more credible that a boxer would be favoured to beat an MMA fighter on the street?

They can't even survive on the feet with a Youtuber ffs

That Youtuber boxed a 17-2 and 10-1 pro boxer too and they did worse than the MMA guys....

Ask any wrestler how much more difficult it is to take someone down even a total novice that has footwear on.

Thats weird considering wrestlers wear footwear in competition

Footwear, clothing etc change it completely

Lol clothing favours the grappler even more. A ton of traditional BJJ is based around the GI. MMA style grappling is much harder because the sweat and blood makes people slippery + the striking.

They still wouldn't be shooting for ankles on concrete.

Why are you acting like they dont have 5x as many ways to take someone down as a boxer has punches?

The idea that someone cant wrestle on concrete is dumb, of course theres more risk of hurting yourself, but much more risk to the guy you're wrestling. Lets not forget cops, bouncers, security etc essentially train basic grappling skills to restrain people as well.

Listen to Anthony Smith on when he encountered a home invader.

You left out the part where the home invader was this guy....

52fb8844d2186.image.jpg?resize=400%2C500.jpg

[TMLT87]

early UFC barely had any rules...

And yet somehow relatively one dimensional wrestlers like Coleman and Severn thrived and never lost their balls or eyes in that environment....

[QueensburyRules]

early UFC barely had any rules.... i just dont get how you guys seem to think only knowing one part of fighting (boxing) prepares someone for a street fight better than someone who has trained in all aspects, its just ridiculous... as if its some sort of advantage to not know anything about grappling/clinch fighting (im talking muay thai style clinch where you are getting kneed and elbowed to the head not the boxing one where the ref seperates them when hugging)

- - Don't see how U ever won a street fight given U low level intellect stereotyping fighters of various stripes.

[kafkod]

'Many considered Tyson the most dangerous man in the world at the time.

In a recent appearance on UFC Tonight, the former boxing heavyweight champion said that’s not the case, Royce Gracie would have beaten him.

Speaking to UFC tonight a number of years ago, Tyson answered the question as wether he would be able to beat Royce Gracie in an MMA fight:

“Well, in ’93, I was in prison, so there wouldn’t have been a fight, but there is no way I would have won. I had no idea what was going on with that type of fighting and would’ve been taken by surprise”, Tyson said.

“I would have had to train in that particular art of fighting before that happened. That’s a particular art. You’re not going to go in there with just your hand and not have a great ground game. You also need a great wrestling game to be successful, and you won’t be exciting, as well. You have to have both games. You have to know how to wrestle and box. That’s just the truth.

Tyson admitted that if he had been offered the opportunity to compete in the first tournament (and if he wasn’t in prison) his ego would likely have forced him to accept.

“My ego would have told me I’m the best fighter in the world with all the particular fighting aspects, and I would have tried it.”

https://www.bjjee.com/articles/mike-...ck-in-the-day/

Tyson sold his soul to Dana White years ago, of course he was going to say that. It doesn't mean anything.

[TMLT87]

Tyson sold his soul to Dana White years ago, of course he was going to say that. It doesn't mean anything.

Tbh though, what exactly would Mike have brought in 1993/94 to counter Royces BJJ compared to the guys Royce actually faced? I mean Ken was a strong dude who already had submission experience from Japan, Severn was a 250lb wrestler who narrowly missed out on the olympics, Remco Pardoel was a 6'4 260lb national judo champ, Gordeau was 6'5 and an extremely dirty fighter etc.

Royces style did get found out and neutralised eventually, but Mike going in blind in the early days? ****, I dont know tbh. He did have a low center of gravity and a lot of speed and power going for him but still.

[kafkod]

Yeah I'm sure you did Unless you outweigh him by 50+ lbs then a legitimate Jiu Jitsu black belt would tap you out quite literally in 30 seconds flat (that's being generous). So you either do that or he may have got his black belt from amazon.

What kind of Jiu Jitsu black belt is he? Japanese I'm assuming if it's not BJJ?

It's next to impossible to achieve a legitimate black belt in two different forms of Jiu Jitsu considering the time frame it takes to achieve that so no I don't think it would nor do I think you have any kind of understanding of this field either.

I'm not sure about that, tbh. But it doesn't really matter. He couldn't tap me out in practice and if he'd tried doing the same things with me in a street fight as he did in the practice, let's just say it wouldn't have gone well for him.

Why do I say it doesn't matter what kind of Ju-Jitsu belt he has?

Because in the real world, there is no form of martial art under the sun that gives regular guys the ability to defeat anybody who isn't trained in that particular martial art in a street fight. NONE.

Maybe in the weird BJJ fanboy fantasy world you live in, things are different. But I'm talking about reality here.

[kafkod]

Tbh though, what exactly would Mike have brought in 1993/94 to counter Royces BJJ compared to the guys Royce actually faced? I mean Ken was a strong dude who already had submission experience from Japan, Severn was a 250lb wrestler who narrowly missed out on the olympics, Remco Pardoel was a 6'4 260lb national judo champ, Gordeau was 6'5 and an extremely dirty fighter etc.

Royces style did get found out and neutralised eventually, but Mike going in blind in the early days? ****, I dont know tbh. He did have a low center of gravity and a lot of speed and power going for him but still.

Royce faced those guys under MMA rules, rather than no rules, and none of them could use their fists like Mike Tyson.

Up till to now I've been discussing a no rules fight between prime Mike Tyson, from the late 1980's, and Jon Jones, which I would make Tyson a strong favourite to win. Qualities Tyson had back then that would have made him at least 50/50 with anybody in a no rules fight were - low centre of gravity, short arms, extreme explosive power, all out aggression, viciousness, street fighting experience, and in particular, the ability to knock big, strong guys out cold with short punches thrown on the move. And he was doing that while wearing 10 oz boxing gloves, of course.

I think the adage "styles make fights" applies to street fights as well as boxing. Imo, a huge, strong specialist grappler/wrestler like, eg, Shamrock, would have a better chance against prime Tyson in a no rules fight than Jon Jones would. I'm going to call that one 50/50. Either guy could realistically beat the other, depending who got the break.

[Ezio Valentino Madison]

Holly Holm won UFC gold
JDS - Terrible boxer, won UFC gold using virtually nothing but his awful boxing
Cody Garbrandt another failed boxer who won UFC gold
Jack Della Maddalena - Utilises nothing but boxing and is destroying guys in the UFC right now
Conor - Came from an amateur boxing background
Stipe Miocic - Wrestling credentials, sure but again basically won UFC gold purely with his boxing.
Petr Yan - Dominated the sport with boxing
Nick and Nate Diaz - Great jiu-jitsu but fought solely using boxing
Jorge Masvidal - Had solid success utilising virtually pure boxing.
Max Holloway - Extremely boxing reliant
Elena Reid - Terrible boxer went 4-1 and beat Michelle Waterson
Mia St John - 1-0 in MMA
Amanda Serrano - Undefeated in MMA and submission grappling
Marcus Davis - Low level boxer transitioned to MMA and went 23-11
Chris Lytle
Ray Mercer

i'm getting the impression you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to MMA lol.... someone like topuria/nate diaz mainly using boxing but being a BJJ black belt is very different to mayweather going into the cage and beating everyone with boxing lol, people stay on their feet with them guys because they know they wouldnt be able to take them down and submit them (at least not easily) thats why the fights stay on their feet and they can showcase their boxing, a fighter like mayweather would be like a turtle on their back within a minute because every MMA fighter they would come across would go straight for a takedown... i dont mean to be rude but do you realise how ****** you sound? do you think every elite UFC fighter/coach is wrong and that all these guys need to do is focus 100 percent on boxing and neglect everything else? like how in your head can you visualise a scenario where any boxer with no grappling experience could avoid getting taken down and submitted by khabib/jon jones in a street fight

[Ezio Valentino Madison]

Royce faced those guys under MMA rules, rather than no rules, and none of them could use their fists like Mike Tyson.

Up till to now I've been discussing a no rules fight between prime Mike Tyson, from the late 1980's, and Jon Jones, which I would make Tyson a strong favourite to win. Qualities Tyson had back then that would have made him at least 50/50 with anybody in a no rules fight were - low centre of gravity, short arms, extreme explosive power, all out aggression, viciousness, street fighting experience, and in particular, the ability to knock big, strong guys out cold with short punches thrown on the move. And he was doing that while wearing 10 oz boxing gloves, of course.

I think the adage "styles make fights" applies to street fights as well as boxing. Imo, a huge, strong specialist grappler/wrestler like, eg, Shamrock, would have a better chance against prime Tyson in a no rules fight than Jon Jones would. I'm going to call that one 50/50. Either guy could realistically beat the other, depending who got the break.

you sound like the losers who do krav maga who think they can beat pro fighters cause theyve been taught to kick someone in the balls lol... is funny cause you guys would have a stroke if someone who does krav maga said they could beat an elite boxer but they would only be following the logic you are using now 'the boxer isnt used to dirty tactics, i'd kick him in the balls and poke his eye' and all that bull****

[TMLT87]

Royce faced those guys under MMA rules, rather than no rules, and none of them could use their fists like Mike Tyson.

There were virtually no rules in Royces era of MMA. You could pull hair, strike people in the nuts, hit them in the back of the head, kick them in the head when they were on the ground, think you could use small joint manipulation (break fingers etc) too although i'm not 100% on that, you could wear basically whatever you wanted, grab the cage to your hearts content etc. There were no weight classes either. I mean how much closer does it need to get to an actual street fight?

Imo, a huge, strong specialist grappler/wrestler like, eg, Shamrock, would have a better chance against prime Tyson in a no rules fight than Jon Jones would

Jon is quite a bit bigger than Ken, and a much better wrestler. I think people tend to underestimate how physically strong and imposing he is because he doesnt LOOK it on the surface. I mean DC had similar dimensions and center of gravity to Tyson except he was a good 20-30lbs heavier and a literal olympic medallist wrestler but he still couldnt overpower Jon. Gane is 6'5, just shy of 250lbs and athletic as **** and Jon ragdolled him. Rampage used to deadlift people off the ground and ****ing powerbomb them, Vitor was in full TRT Vitor mode juiced to the ****ing gills when Jon beat him etc.

I'm not sure about that, tbh. But it doesn't really matter. He couldn't tap me out in practice and if he'd tried doing the same things with me in a street fight as he did in the practice, let's just say it wouldn't have gone well for him.

Why do I say it doesn't matter what kind of Ju-Jitsu belt he has?

Because in the real world, there is no form of martial art under the sun that gives regular guys the ability to defeat anybody who isn't trained in that particular martial art in a street fight. NONE.

Maybe in the weird BJJ fanboy fantasy world you live in, things are different. But I'm talking about reality here.

Pro MMA fighters are not regular guys though. Its a legit pro sport and the fighters are serious athletes training 30+hrs a week. Not some hobbyists.

It definitely matters what kind of Jiu jitsu the guy did. Japanese Ju-jutsu is like comparing I dunno, wing chun to boxing or something, in terms of being a properly developed and pressure tested competitive field. Its not the same art really.

Even within actual BJJ there is a massive variation and schism. You get tons of nerdy Gi BJJ guys who treat it like a cult and arent really athletic at all. Then on the other hand you have No Gi which is much more athletically demanding and tends to produce monsters. Obviously MMA is much closer to No Gi but even more high paced and intense due to strikes, shorter time limits to work with etc.