Usyk is the true lineal, Fury is fraud

[Toffee]

Dude, there is always a lineal...

It's amazing how many people hold wildly different views regarding what lineal status is or how it is won.

And yet everyone is adamant that their way is the only and correct interpretation.

Is anyone starting to realise that Lineal as a title you walk in to the ring with is a nonsense? It's an historical designation that the passing of time and fights resolves - not something you decide in the present when there's so much doubt.

[M312]

Once you get past the very first break it's all opinion.

For example, it's only your opinion that you need an Undisputed champion. The vast majority don't agree. Your lineage will be different to others on that basis. Doesn't mean that yours is correct (or incorrect for that matter).

In my opinion, bringing the orgs into this equation (as you have by requiring all belts) immediately calls your view into question.

There's no single point of authority.

No it's not opinion. An undisputed champion holds all the belts. There is no opinion involved.

Feel free to Google the definition yourself and come back to me showing me where it's an opinion.

[M312]

Nope that's all opinion.

As I said, plenty of people believe 1 v 3 is enough if the top two won't fight.

Klitschko did subsequently beat Povetkin and Pulev too. That would be enough to satisfy many.

Remember, there was a point when Vitali was retired so any mythical Klitschko duel isn't relevant.

Where is your definition from? And why is that THE definition?

I don't think you understand what lineal is. Google it

[M312]

Dude, there is always a lineal... and if fans don't recognize it? thats a shame... It is a right that fans can assert! And Just because it is debatable and sometimes not resolved clearly does not make it any less valid. Yor confusing undisputed versus lineal regarding lewis.

There is not always a lineal!

You're talking about a number one or perhaps Ring champion. That's very different.

Not a lineal champion. That only comes from the original belt holder or an undisputed champion if the lineage is broken.

Google the definition.

[M312]

Source? the real lineal is for the Heavy weight champ... not other weight divisions. And it is not undisputed it is the "best" which YES is a fluid definition. it works because it is fluid and lets people determine the designation based on the last reigning champ, the present champ, and the opinion of the who the best happens to be.

It has nothing to do with being the best!
You are totally confused about what a lineal champion is.

The lineal champion could be a complete bum who KOs the lineal champion. He may not even hold any belts. It's simply a timeline following the original champion or the undisputed champion if the lineage is broken.

For example, Shannon Briggs was once lineal champion when he beat George Foreman, despite not holding a belt and clearly not being the best as he was defeated without defending it once.

Why? Because the timeline followed the original Undisputed champion in that 'reign', Floyd Patterson in the 50s (after Marciano retired). Once Lewis retired, he also retired the lineal title, which was then muddied by the amount of titles in there.

There hadn't been a undisputed champion in Heavyweight for years. Boxings marquee division, the heavyweight division had no clout and there was no progress being made to getting a new undisputed champion as obviously little chance of Wladimir fighting Vital. So Wladimir was 'awarded' lineal as a special circumstance for marketing purposes and to bring luster back to Boxings main division.
Not because he was lineal champion. But because they said he couldn't be as he wouldn't fight his brother.

My point is (and many other people) is if Wladimir couldn't fight Vitali, he cannot be lineal. That's factual. 'Awarding' it only muddied the waters. Great for marketing, but really no different to a Franchise champion. Just made up for marketing. Some people will even believe it.

The sooner we get an undisputed champion to clear up this mess the better.

Toffee too since I found the effort to write this.

Lineal has zero to do with opinion or being the best.

Hope this clears it up. If not, I give up lol

[removed]

The entire boxing establishment says that Fury is the lineal HW champion.

[QueensburyRules]

The entire boxing establishment says that Fury is the lineal HW champion.

- - Furry is flubber and the entire boxing establishment combined IQ barely registers over a gnat.

[IronDanHamza]

In what world?

Who was above them?

300 pound, banned, twice retired Fury?

I don’t think Joshua was even ranked Top 5 then.

He certainly wasn’t “consensus top 2”

Klitschko hadn’t won a fight for about 2 years at that point aswell.

So, in that world. Also known as “the real world”.

[hugh grant]

This thread might lure fury out of retirement. Fury.might read non stop boxing.
I don't want Fury to fight if he feels he's finished now. He came back from 30 stone to beat wilder, he maybe happy with that, and it was great

[Hustle]

I'll engage you just one more time.

The argument isn't that he won Lineal from Wlad. It's that they were the best two active fighters at that point and therefore established a new lineage.

It didn't. That's already established