Usyk is the true lineal, Fury is fraud

[Toffee]

That should end the discussion

Everyone knows Klitschko lost to Fury. That's not being discussed at here.

My sense is you're well out of your depth.

[Mr Giggles]

Usyks HW resume is better than furys? What on earth. That’s the worst statement I’ve ever heard, he’s literally beaten one man

[Toffee]

What you are describing is more like the undisputed number 1/Ring champion - if 2 and 3 are too close to separate, then The Ring have been known to award a belt...

...But that is not lineal.

This is the definition of a lineal champion:

The lineal championship of a weight class is a world championship title held initially by an undisputed champion and subsequently by a fighter who defeats the reigning champion in a match at that weight class.

Wladimir did not do this. He was NEVER undisputed and never beat the previous undisputed champion (or lineage of that as Lewis retired). That cannot be disputed. It is fact.

He didn't face his brother (or the following belt holders) so it is literally impossible for him to be lineal.

All that is totally ignoring the fact Vitali would've beaten his younger brother without much doubt.

I have no problem with him being awarded the Ring belt or being ranked number 1, but that's different.

Nope that's all opinion.

As I said, plenty of people believe 1 v 3 is enough if the top two won't fight.

Klitschko did subsequently beat Povetkin and Pulev too. That would be enough to satisfy many.

Remember, there was a point when Vitali was retired so any mythical Klitschko duel isn't relevant.

Where is your definition from? And why is that THE definition?

[ELPacman]

I agree. Usyk beat the man who beat the man. Fury is entertaining but according to 99% of the posters, Wilder was a bum, yet probably Fury's entire legacy? Makes no sense.

[Hustle]

Everyone knows Klitschko lost to Fury. That's not being discussed at here.

My sense is you're well out of your depth.

He loss lineal to fury. So joshua didn't win lineal from wlad

[billeau2]

It's impossible to have a TRUE lineal champion without unifying the belts. It's disputed who's number 1.

In Wladimirs case, most people who watched boxing at the time would have picked Vitali to beat him. Hell, most would've had Vitali winning years after retirement when Wladimir was at his peak.

Lol... I disagree sort of... I think you have a better lineal with a unified, and Yes the lineal certainly Can be disputed with no undisputed. But I trust the common man to figure it out... and most times? there is one guy who reigns supreme. Think about most times when alphabet soup reigned and try to think of the amount of times we knew who was the man versus when it could have been disputed.

Most fans of the sport would indeed... and thats good enough for me. I only disagree because of the time line as stated by RJthegoat. But prime for prime? I agree.

[billeau2]

It's not my argument.

Wladimir being lineal was always marketing at the time. In fact it was rarely/never used other than the Chageav fight because it was fake.

Tyson Fury just suddenly started using it when he had no belts to again market himself.

Actually, you follow the line... There hasn't been a lineal champion since Lewis. Just niave fans who fall for marketing say it (or hardcore Fury fans who believe every word he says)

Dude, there is always a lineal... and if fans don't recognize it? thats a shame... It is a right that fans can assert! And Just because it is debatable and sometimes not resolved clearly does not make it any less valid. Yor confusing undisputed versus lineal regarding lewis.

[billeau2]

What you are describing is more like the undisputed number 1/Ring champion - if 2 and 3 are too close to separate, then The Ring have been known to award a belt...

...But that is not lineal.

This is the definition of a lineal champion:

The lineal championship of a weight class is a world championship title held initially by an undisputed champion and subsequently by a fighter who defeats the reigning champion in a match at that weight class.

Wladimir did not do this. He was NEVER undisputed and never beat the previous undisputed champion (or lineage of that as Lewis retired). That cannot be disputed. It is fact.

He didn't face his brother (or the following belt holders) so it is literally impossible for him to be lineal.

All that is totally ignoring the fact Vitali would've beaten his younger brother without much doubt.

I have no problem with him being awarded the Ring belt or being ranked number 1, but that's different.

Source? the real lineal is for the Heavy weight champ... not other weight divisions. And it is not undisputed it is the "best" which YES is a fluid definition. it works because it is fluid and lets people determine the designation based on the last reigning champ, the present champ, and the opinion of the who the best happens to be.

[REDEEMER]

He loss lineal to fury. So joshua didn't win lineal from wlad

Wlad was never lineal those who think or wish Fury continues this false narrative have agendas .

You can only restart lineal by becoming undisputed really since Lewis and Vitali left , anything beyond that is just jargon to confuse fans . You can’t just pick up a vacant belt either and claim that rank like Stiverne did with the WBC title which rules out Wilder since he won it from Stiverne .

For these reasons whoever gets undisputed is the actual true lineal champion again . You see Vitali forfeited the belt after the real lineal retired Lewis . Fury won the WBC against Wilder which is explained why he’s not lineal either .

There is no lineal currently .

[Toffee]

He loss lineal to fury. So joshua didn't win lineal from wlad

I'll engage you just one more time.

The argument isn't that he won Lineal from Wlad. It's that they were the best two active fighters at that point and therefore established a new lineage.