Who is Higher All Time Great? Pac or Floyd

[Benny Leonard]

For a year now you still bitching about the weight issues... Go make yourself a new boxing rules and stop being idiot.....

It's because people like you keep bringing it up like Hatton was at some type of disadvantage when he fought Floyd in terms of weight.

Hatton does as well but I can understand his need to: He lost to Floyd; he needs an excuse to get back in there and, he wants to save his legacy at 140.

But the fact is, he lost to the better fighter who weighs 149 pounds by fight time for his Welterweight bouts...same as JrWW fight time weight...as well as Ricky's JrWW fight time weight.

[multivitamins]

What are you talking about and what don't you get?

Both Hatton and Floyd show up by fight time at 149 pounds...so they are actually above 147.

Cutting weight only has to do with fighting in a particular division. Fighters that fight at 140 pounds for the division, don't actually show up at 140 pounds...they rehydrate upwards.

You have a better chance of showing up "Flat" by fight time if you have to lose more weight, so, having the fight at 147 was acutally an advantage; you can show up healthy.

Oscar was weight drained at 147. He actually left that division about 7 years ago becaue he said he was having trouble making weight.
Freddie Roach even talked about the weight issue. Take it up with him.

It's healthy if you make 147 because there's a better chance he'll look flat at 140 for Hatton. The question is Did he Look Spectacular at 147?

Do you even understand the meaning of weight drained? Do you call someone weight drained whose already at 147 2months before the fight. Its funny how you beg for Roach words when he said you make and cut your weight during the weigh in not 2 months before the fight. I doubt you even understand that. I doubt you know better than Nacho Beristain and the entire GBP or being weightdrained or overtained or someone who potshots and look like a coward than a guy who fights toe to toe and throws 50 punches per round.

[FasTHarD]

It's because people like you keep bringing it up like Hatton was at some type of disadvantage when he fought Floyd in terms of weight.

Hatton does as well but I can understand his need to: He lost to Floyd; he needs an excuse to get back in there and, he wants to save his legacy at 140.

But the fact is, he lost to the better fighter who weighs 149 pounds by fight time for his Welterweight bouts...same as JrWW fight time weight...as well as Ricky's JrWW fight time weight.

Did i talk about Hattons weight excuse? Im talking about you bitching on Mayweathers weight and covering his acts of scaredness to lose his "0" for fighting the best.... You know what your boy just don't have the balls to do what he wants.. Sorry

[Chups]

Would Floyd lose to Morales and draw (and in most people's opinion LOSE) against Juan Manuel Marquez? I don't think so. Floyd has never lost, and damn near all his victories have been blowouts. He is much more skilled than Pacquiao and has the better resume and legacy BY FAR.

Flawed logic. Is Dawson higher in the all-time greats list than Floyd coz he would have gone thru Floyd's resume easily? Would Floyd beat Tarver??


Floyd has beaten less great fighters than Pac.

[cortdawg25]

flawed logic. Is dawson higher in the all-time greats list than floyd coz he would have gone thru floyd's resume easily? Would floyd beat tarver??


Floyd has beaten less great fighters than pac.

bennyst already done laid out about who has fought best comp. Besides a past prime mab and morales and then jmm. Who else great has manny fought? And he took a l to morales, draw with jmm, and a razor thin decision. U called that a better resume than genaro hernadez, one of the best sfw ever, carlos hernandez, and undefeated and lb 4 lb corrales, prime castillo twice, and very good dominant wins over manfredy and n'dou.

[S.G.]

i'd have to say Mayweather definitely... he is clearly the better fighter of the two and although i'd rate Pacman's resume above Mayweather's, it does not completely eclipse it like some people would have you believe

[Chups]

bennyst already done laid out about who has fought best comp. Besides a past prime mab and morales and then jmm. Who else great has manny fought? And he took a l to morales, draw with jmm, and a razor thin decision. U called that a better resume than genaro hernadez, one of the best sfw ever, carlos hernandez, and undefeated and lb 4 lb corrales, prime castillo twice, and very good dominant wins over manfredy and n'dou.

You call Morales and JMM past prime but wouldn't admit that Genaro Hernandez was too? Genaro Hernandez wasn't even great, so is Carlos Hernandez and Corrales. They are good fighters but not Legends like top 5 Mexican ATG MAB and Morales. Castillo is not a great fighter and will never be in HOF, so is Ndou and Manfredy. The only HOF Floyd fought is Oscar.
Mind you, Barrera WAS in his Prime when Pac beat his ass. You can't deny that. He came back to win world titles after that losing only to JMM in a close fight.

Let's see sure fire HOF

Pac-MAB, Morales Oscar

Floyd-Oscar

[MELLY-MEL...]

pac. floyd could have been, but never faced his big challenges at 47.

[Benny Leonard]

It's healthy if you make 147 because there's a better chance he'll look flat at 140 for Hatton. The question is Did he Look Spectacular at 147?

Do you even understand the meaning of weight drained? Do you call someone weight drained whose already at 147 2months before the fight. Its funny how you beg for Roach words when he said you make and cut your weight during the weigh in not 2 months before the fight. I doubt you even understand that. I doubt you know better than Nacho Beristain and the entire GBP or being weightdrained or overtained or someone who potshots and look like a coward than a guy who fights toe to toe and throws 50 punches per round.

Are we talking about the Weight or the Division for "147"? and which fighter is "he'll"? Ricky???

I'll try.

Yes, at 147 it would be healthier to make for both Ricky and Floyd.
the fight wasn't at 140 because Hatton had his two chances to fight Floyd but refused. Floyd went up, and he won the 147 title; so ball was in his hands. Floyd, who now hadn't made weight in what, 2, maybe 3 years?? Wasn't going to go back down and try to make weight; no point. Just stay healthy.

And yes, I understand what "weight drained" means.

And I have a good idea what over-training is.

We are talking about Oscar for the 147 pounds two months prior. So here is what possibly happened, and we are including what Freddie Roach said.

To make 147, first, we would have to know how Oscar did it; what was his diet? Training: well, lots of hard work as a boxer so that is the given, however; does this have to be adjusted to his age and new weight? Dundee used to have George do just enough training so that he wouldn't leave it all in the gym; this was for his comeback. Why? because at his age, the body may not have the same amount of energy and add that to the wear and tear.

Diet: Decreased Calories; Decreased Fats? Decreased Carbs? Protein level?
At what numbers were he following?

Considering he moved up to 154 years back because he was having a hard time making 147, how is that good? Now that he made 147, how did he all of a sudden do it...was it by starving the body to an unhealthy limit while training hard?

Take away Fats, Carbs, and Protein or any one of them, and you may have a problem for your body...specifically athletes who need them all. Fats for hormone levels, as well as Carbs...which also helps with energy for the muscles. Protein helps keep the muscle on, but you need Fat and Carbs to supply energy to those muscles.

The more you diet and the more your body isn't used to it, the more chance you have of stressing your body out. Now add a boxer's training regimen in there; that is increased stress. You have to supply your body with the proper amount of nutrition during your training to stay healthy. For Oscar, who hasn't had to make the weight in a long time, it becomes a tricky problem to solve. And what works for one person, may not work for another so even if you are trained in this, you aren't guaranteed of success.

Personally, if I was the trainer, I would have never let Oscar take the risk. Not only because he hadn't been at that weight for such a long time, but I would have looked at history with other fighters at his age that tried to do it and failed....Freddie brought this up as well.

Freddie points to decreased carbs. Here is a quick example: Bodybuilders start to cut weight months prior to a competition by decreasing carbs. By the time they show up for the competition, they are ripped and ready for the show, however, they wouldn't be ready for an athletic event...why? Because they were decreasing carbohydrates during their training and leading up to the competition. So now, they still have some muscle of course, but not enough energy to support those muscles for a long period of time. That's why they are tired after doing their little show of flexing for a minute. I asked a bodybuilder about this.


Freddie also pointed to Oscar's stomach shrinking to the point where he couldn't eat food.
I've heard this theory as well. The smaller you eat, the smaller your stomach gets. Like muscles, it takes training your stomach to consume larger portions of food throughout the day.

So, if Oscar is keeping his weight at 147 during training camp and that is his actual walk around weight, he is dieting and training to keep at that weight. For him, that proved unhealthy. His body was not only not used to it but in the end, it ruined him for fight night because of the amount of days he had been at that weight. His body was not being supplied with the right amount of nutrients in that time to support what his body needed to be a "fighter" at his age and body frame.

When Oscar was 147 pounds, that was his walk around weight so that means unlike his fight say against Floyd, where he was 154 pounds for the weigh-in, which is a sign of how much muscle he is carring, and then he put on 10+ pounds by returning the fluids back into his system...at 147, that was it; that was his muscle and fluids in his body all in one. So if Oscar was say, 164+ by fight time with Floyd and 147 for Pac, that is the difference of 20 pounds. 20 pounds, damn...who does that remind you of? Roy, Tarver, Chris Bryd?

[Benny Leonard]

You call Morales and JMM past prime but wouldn't admit that Genaro Hernandez was too? Genaro Hernandez wasn't even great, so is Carlos Hernandez and Corrales. They are good fighters but not Legends like top 5 Mexican ATG MAB and Morales. Castillo is not a great fighter and will never be in HOF, so is Ndou and Manfredy. The only HOF Floyd fought is Oscar.
Mind you, Barrera WAS in his Prime when Pac beat his ass. You can't deny that. He came back to win world titles after that losing only to JMM in a close fight.

Let's see sure fire HOF

Pac-MAB, Morales Oscar

Floyd-Oscar

Diego was a beast at lightweight and Floyd got him when he was undefeated. He certainly made Freitas his *****. Freitas beat Casamayor by the way.

I bet Diego's battle with Castillo alone will put him in the Hall Of Fame.

Even if Diego wasn't the HOF fighter Morales was, Diego was the better fighter in my opinion. Not by division P4P, but because I would favor Diego in a fight between the two.

Anyway, remember, Zahir schooled Morales as well right after Pac got him the first time and before Pac knocked him out. If Zahir schooled him, that either says something about Zahir or it says where Morales was in his career.

Pac did kick the **** out of MAB; good fight; good win.