Who is Higher All Time Great? Pac or Floyd

[Benny Leonard]

the only moronic thing that stands out in this thread is bennyleonard's continuous bashing of roach's supposedly weight tactics (as if the other fighter was forced to sign on at that weight) while on the other hand, making roach's prefight statements about oscar as prophetic and using that as an excuse, only now IN HINDSIGHT AND AFTER THE FACT. how ******ly convenient.

"Those who don't know their history are bound to repeat it"

Freddie knew this so stop acting like it is some type of mysticism I'm talking about. Freddie even explained he weighed history in his favor.

Freddie used calculation on his odds of Pac winning. Chess players, Generals, Coaches, etc. all do this.

Nobody was forced to sign on to the weight, I agree, however; that wasn't my point.

Not an exuse; reason. Excuse is different from reason.

I used Tszyu vs. Hatton by the way and I did say Oscar could show up "flat" based on his similarities with Tszyu.

I'm just not a big fan of Freddie using weight tactics to beat a fighter on the scales instead of in the ring. I'll give him one thing; he's at least honest about it...even joking about it (with Margarito).


So you agree with Freddie's tactics?
This is important to me because this will let me know who you are inside.

[nujabes77]

now i think about it, this thread is more of the pacuiao/de la hoya fight rather than the topic

[Bogler]

"Those who don't know their history are bound to repeat it"

Freddie knew this so stop acting like it is some type of mysticism I'm talking about. Freddie even explained he weighed history in his favor.

Freddie used calculation on his odds of Pac winning. Chess players, Generals, Coaches, etc. all do this.

Nobody was forced to sign on to the weight, I agree, however; that wasn't my point.

Not an exuse; reason. Excuse is different from reason.

I used Tszyu vs. Hatton by the way and I did say Oscar could show up "flat" based on his similarities with Tszyu.

I'm just not a big fan of Freddie using weight tactics to beat a fighter on the scales instead of in the ring. I'll give him one thing; he's at least honest about it...even joking about it (with Margarito).


So you agree with Freddie's tactics?
This is important to me because this will let me know who you are inside.

you make it seem as though you're all knowledgeable when in fact you're only using events in hindsight as proof of it. anyone can make his own conclusion AFTER THE FACT, be it same or diff than yours by using these. you however pass it off as the only real explanation. whats moronic is bashing a person's credibility while using the same person's statements as prophetic supporting facts to your conclusion. that's why it's so ******ly convenient. im signing off on this thread, whatever long convoluted reply you'll have, i have the same answer.

[Benny Leonard]

you make it seem as though you're all knowledgeable when in fact you're only using events in hindsight as proof of it. anyone can make his own conclusion AFTER THE FACT, be it same or diff than yours by using these. you however pass it off as the only real explanation. whats moronic is bashing a person's credibility while using the same person's statements as prophetic supporting facts to your conclusion. that's why it's so ******ly convenient. im signing off on this thread, whatever long convoluted reply you'll have, i have the same answer.

So my ability to think up of the Tszyu comparison doesn't count even though it was before the fight?

My saying Oscar could show up "flat" because of everything doesn't count?


I'm am not a part of Oscar's camp so I have no info on his diet and his training habits.

And what Freddie said before and after still count even if you would like it not to. And Freddie's opinion was based on history, first-hand account, and odds.

You can never have a full investigation and conclusion until it happens.



Good to see you have avoided this question:

So you agree with Freddie's tactics?

[Bogler]

So my ability to think up of the Tszyu comparison doesn't count even though it was before the fight?

My saying Oscar could show up "flat" because of everything doesn't count?


I'm am not a part of Oscar's camp so I have no info on his diet and his training habits.

And what Freddie said before and after still count even if you would like it not to. And Freddie's opinion was based on history, first-hand account, and odds.

You can never have a full investigation and conclusion until it happens.



Good to see you have avoided this question:

So you agree with Freddie's tactics?

you must be really think in the skull. pac's highest weight fightnight is around 147ish, why would he campaign in a division higher or take a fight higher than his weight? goodlord, it's not about tactics, it's about logic which you need a lil bit i think. oscar didnt have a gun pointed at him when he signed. i'd take dundee's and nacho's statements about oscar's physical health during training over yours anyday.

[Benny Leonard]

you must be really think in the skull. pac's highest weight fightnight is around 147ish, why would he campaign in a division higher or take a fight higher than his weight? goodlord, it's not about tactics, it's about logic which you need a lil bit i think. oscar didnt have a gun pointed at him when he signed. i'd take dundee's and nacho's statements about oscar's physical health during training over yours anyday.

Floyd's weight is 147-149 fight night yet he took the fight against Oscar at 154 knowing Oscar would blow up in weight to 164+ like he did against Mayorga. Plus, Floyd also agreed to use "Reyes" gloves that Oscar wanted him to wear even though Floyd knows these gloves are bad for his hands and Oscar knows it too. It does say something about Oscar but doesn't it say something about Floyd?

Morales fight: Why couldn't Freddie allow this fight to be the next division up like Morales wanted?
Why not give the Great Champion some room to make weight easier in the next division up so that he could be healthier?

Wouldn't you want to fight a healthy fighter or do you want to fight a dead fighter?

Dundee also allowed Ali to go on way past his prime.

And, I know a little bit about health and conditioning and knowing that, I know that sometimes the body can continue on for some time before it hits a plateau; a stress plateau and then the body collapses.
If you decrease carbs and Fats from your diet, what happens?
If you can't rehydrate your system, what happens?
When you cut your food intake what happens?


And what about what Freddie said after he heard what Oscar did...his points don't matter?

[Bogler]

Floyd's weight is 147-149 fight night yet he took the fight against Oscar at 154 knowing Oscar would blow up in weight to 164+ like he did against Mayorga. Plus, Floyd also agreed to use "Reyes" gloves that Oscar wanted him to wear even though Floyd knows these gloves are bad for his hands and Oscar knows it too. It does say something about Oscar but doesn't it say something about Floyd?

Morales fight: Why couldn't Freddie allow this fight to be the next division up like Morales wanted?
Why not give the Great Champion some room to make weight easier in the next division up so that he could be healthier?

Wouldn't you want to fight a healthy fighter or do you want to fight a dead fighter?

Dundee also allowed Ali to go on way past his prime.

And, I know a little bit about health and conditioning and knowing that, I know that sometimes the body can continue on for some time before it hits a plateau; a stress plateau and then the body collapses.
If you decrease carbs and Fats from your diet, what happens?
If you can't rehydrate your system, what happens?
When you cut your food intake what happens?


And what about what Freddie said after he heard what Oscar did...his points don't matter?

lol nobody pointed a gun at pbf also, his greediness took over. but we all know oscar is the greediest that's why he took this fight. he was below or at 150 EVEN BEFORE training camp started for gods sake. he didnt drain 10 or 20lbs off.

morales? did he look healthier in his 2fights at 135? did he win? he lost to diaz who you criticize profusely, how much more healthier did erik look? at 122 or 126 he looked more from ethiopia than at 130.

lol at the dundee jab as if you know more. if ali still wanted to fight, dundee cant do anything about it.

anyway, my initial argument wasn't to debate again about oscar's weight. it was 3posts back, read again.

[PiNoYBoXR]

pac is ahead in my book he's taken more risks has fought better comp and deserves to be ahead of mayweather

I agree with this guy..

[Benny Leonard]

lol nobody pointed a gun at pbf also, his greediness took over. but we all know oscar is the greediest that's why he took this fight. he was below or at 150 EVEN BEFORE training camp started for gods sake. he didnt drain 10 or 20lbs off.

morales? did he look healthier in his 2fights at 135? did he win? he lost to diaz who you criticize profusely, how much more healthier did erik look? at 122 or 126 he looked more from ethiopia than at 130.

lol at the dundee jab as if you know more. if ali still wanted to fight, dundee cant do anything about it.

anyway, my initial argument wasn't to debate again about oscar's weight. it was 3posts back, read again.

Yes, and I continue to agree that nobody pointed the gun to anyone's head to take the fight. However, you’re still missing the problem I have with Freddie and why I asked you if you would do the same thing...would you?
Freddie didn't have to take the fight either. Knowing what Freddie knew, if that was you, would you have done the same thing?

So Oscar was already dieting before training camp?
When was the last time he weighed that low?


Morales: So after Morales lost to Zahir, why take the fight?
Just to get a win on Pac's record because he lost...is that a reason?
Hell, if you knew he was past his prime, why not just give him the 5 extra pounds just to help him out? Do you have to be a total asswhole and kill the guy?
That's my point with Freddie. Freddie's been in this game for a long time and has health problems because of it...why continue to get more leverage on your side.
If I were in Freddie's position, I wouldn't have done what he did.

Dundee could have left Ali to show him that he wasn't going to stick by and see him commit suicide. If I were Dundee, I would have sat Ali down, talked to him, showed him why I felt this way...taken him to a Doctor for his advice...and then said, "That's it...I won't see you kill yourself." If Ali went on, that's on him, but at least he would know how I felt.


3 posts bacK

Did you check my reply and respond to each?

[Bogler]

Yes, and I continue to agree that nobody pointed the gun to anyone's head to take the fight. However, you’re still missing the problem I have with Freddie and why I asked you if you would do the same thing...would you?
Freddie didn't have to take the fight either. Knowing what Freddie knew, if that was you, would you have done the same thing?

So Oscar was already dieting before training camp?
When was the last time he weighed that low?


Morales: So after Morales lost to Zahir, why take the fight?
Just to get a win on Pac's record because he lost...is that a reason?
Hell, if you knew he was past his prime, why not just give him the 5 extra pounds just to help him out? Do you have to be a total asswhole and kill the guy?
That's my point with Freddie. Freddie's been in this game for a long time and has health problems because of it...why continue to get more leverage on your side.
If I were in Freddie's position, I wouldn't have done what he did.

Dundee could have left Ali to show him that he wasn't going to stick by and see him commit suicide. If I were Dundee, I would have sat Ali down, talked to him, showed him why I felt this way...taken him to a Doctor for his advice...and then said, "That's it...I won't see you kill yourself." If Ali went on, that's on him, but at least he would know how I felt.


3 posts bacK

Did you check my reply and respond to each?

oh benny you sound like a teenage girl that got stood up on prom night. get over it. oscar and his trainers were men to give pac's camp props. you however sound your confusing your own self as you go on. how the **** would anyone know here if oscar was dieting before camp. you spew questions more than an x-files episode, all is a conspiracy to you. but the fact is there that he's at that weight even before camp. you could take it anyway you want, that he's dieting or just was trimmed down healthily even before training.

LOL at the dundee scenario, as if you know better than angelo. you're really weird benny. good night its late.