How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[billeau2]

What aint no country i ever heard of!!!

Do I stutter?

[billeau2]

Been trying to tell the guy to get off his own opinion but I don't think he really understands what I'm telling him. To him that post lacked bias. He called Jersey Joe flashy, but that's not merely his opinion because watch the visuals......he's not understanding what we expect to see for an analysis.

moneytheman


bill isn't even saying you're wrong or right, he's telling you the same thing I did; you're failing your own opinions by the way you present them.


I took think Joe Walcott was flashy and had great movement, but that's not an analysis it's an opinion. In my opinion Joe Walcott had the biggest bag of tricks the sport has ever seen. I do not disagree with what you're trying to get across about him, but the idea you've provided an analysis of anyone is just, well, wrong. You've not. You've shared your opinions and that's about it.

The Sucka Punch was one of the greatest tricks ever done in the ring but if you wanted a technical analysis of it I'd tell you he dipped his shoulders back and forth to get you watching his shoulders and take attention off his feet. Once he had that hook baited he'd keep his feet at orthodox and shoulders at southpaw. Leading with his right, throwing right hand jabs, to convince his opponent he's switched stances but he hasn't, he's pre-loaded his left. His waisted is twisted. Once he has you, he drops you with that pre-loaded left. Gives him the speed of a no-load punch with the power of a fully loaded punch.

No opinion after I say I'd tell you, just an explanation of a technique.

Again, not trying to change your opinions, just your presentation. I think you'd find more who agree with you more often if you spoke more to the boxing and less to your own opinion of the boxing. I get you're struggling to separate them but you should try.

Yes!!! Its like my wife... 'Honey why is Oscar De La Hoya such a great fighter?" "Cause hes so handsome!" BTW Walcott named himself after a guy who was supposedly the master craftsman... Barbados Joe! Fought all the way up from lightweight to heavy! Guy was so slick the eels called him a slippery fellow!

[MisterHardtop]

Muhammad ali said he had trouble with rocky in their simulated fight. And rocky was 50 something I believe. If that tells you anything.

I am not sure if this is true. Muhammad Ali spoke highly of Marciano, as he often did when for past fighters when he was on "off mode" and just being calm and not promoting himself.

The simulated fight itself was no fight at all. The directors actively told each fighter what to do, which scenario to follow, which punch to throw etc. There was absolutely no actual contest, it was like a staged wrestling match. These directions were based off supposed algorithms of a computer, not quite sure of the com*****g power in those days to work such a thing.

The simulation itself had two endings, one of Rocky winning by stoppage, one of Ali winning by stoppage.

This is no way should be any indication of how a prime Rocky would have done against a prime Ali. In my opinion, Ali would have easily outboxed him, but that does not detract from the greatness of Rocky. Styles makes fights.

Oh and Rocky was probably 45 during filming not 50.

[Willie Pep 229]

I am not sure if this is true. Muhammad Ali spoke highly of Marciano, as he often did when for past fighters when he was on "off mode" and just being calm and not promoting himself.

The simulated fight itself was no fight at all. The directors actively told each fighter what to do, which scenario to follow, which punch to throw etc. There was absolutely no actual contest, it was like a staged wrestling match. These directions were based off supposed algorithms of a computer, not quite sure of the com*****g power in those days to work such a thing.

The simulation itself had two endings, one of Rocky winning by stoppage, one of Ali winning by stoppage.

This is no way should be any indication of how a prime Rocky would have done against a prime Ali. In my opinion, Ali would have easily outboxed him, but that does not detract from the greatness of Rocky. Styles makes fights.

Oh and Rocky was probably 45 during filming not 50.

No doubt the fight was staged. How do you know it was choreograph from the computer's matrix?

Did the director or producer of the film say that?

What makes me wonder is two fold.

It would be very difficult for even a seasoned actor to throw or block one punch at a time and hold any continuity or realism to his action. A boxer being told to perform in such a manner would find the request difficult to perform.

I could see a director saying to Ali "OK give me a three punch combination, you Rocky block the first two and duck under the last right hand." But a punch by punch recreation seems odd.

Second, there never was a Marciano-Ali computer final championship fight. I believe it was actually Dempsey who was in the final tournament's bout.

I was under the impression that the film producers put Ali and Marciano toghter because it was somewhat realistic age wise and because both still had fans.

I suspect it was more like a staged professional wrestling (a written script) than it was a computer recreation. But I really don't know.

[Marchegiano]

I am not sure if this is true. Muhammad Ali spoke highly of Marciano, as he often did when for past fighters when he was on "off mode" and just being calm and not promoting himself.

The simulated fight itself was no fight at all. The directors actively told each fighter what to do, which scenario to follow, which punch to throw etc. There was absolutely no actual contest, it was like a staged wrestling match. These directions were based off supposed algorithms of a computer, not quite sure of the com*****g power in those days to work such a thing.

The simulation itself had two endings, one of Rocky winning by stoppage, one of Ali winning by stoppage.

This is no way should be any indication of how a prime Rocky would have done against a prime Ali. In my opinion, Ali would have easily outboxed him, but that does not detract from the greatness of Rocky. Styles makes fights.

Oh and Rocky was probably 45 during filming not 50.

Ali respected Marciano a bit more than any other past fighter

He's being asked a very open-ended question and he fills it in with Marciano on his own....not Dempsey( that not Dempsey isn't really for you bud, I mess with Dempsey fans here loads)


I highly doubt com*****g power was much of an issue to be honest. They basically made a Dungeons and Dragons meets Fantasy League sort of deal. Should be very very basic stuff. If you have an issue with computer simulation in boxing it's probably more in the programed values the developers attributed to the fighters more than any sort of com*****g issue.

I mean this sim sure, but also it isn't like we don't have boxing video games and simulators like title bout these days. If you're playing say a fight night or some such and put Marciano against Ali with the CPU controlling both fighters and don't like the outcomes you're seeing porting the program to a more powerful rig is not going to effect those outcomes.



Purely from a programming stand point Marciano's got some absurd statistics that make the NGRs a little less random. When dealing with just numbers his 49-0, KO ratio, clearing the ranked fighters in his era, and ability to absorb damage without being dropped are just a pain. I have personally tried to re-create the Marciano - Ali using title bout as my base but once I get into it I'm like, ok. computers are bias in favor of numbers and jeez oh Rock has good numbers.

Like for example, that 49-0, we as fans don't put too heavy of stock into it. It's nice but it's not that big a deal. Loads of people will say it's easy to be undefeated if your competition is poor. It's logical, but the fact is in statistics getting the same result 49 times consecutively is just a difficult thing to do. Similar to Wlad's decade. Plenty of weak eras, not so many Louis/Wlad or Marciano/Fury.

So basically any stat based program is going to favor numbers a lot while any human interpretation based programming will favor what the programmers expect to see.


Mike Paul also made a computer program for ratings, before BoxRec was a thing. His computer put Rock at 4.

BoxRec's program has him at 5

Mike Paul and BoxRec programming both agree Jack Dempsey and Joe Frazier are not top ten HWs. I'm very confident this is because Rocky's got absurd numbers and computers favor numbers so unless you muck with them Rock's going to do very well.

[JAB5239]

I can do it i will u forget I use alot of detail that most dont so I'll have to give u the reasons to of said fighters

Money, wheres that list bro?

[mrbig1]

Rocky was a man of his time but not all time. He and Joe as great as they were just too small for today's fighters.

[JAB5239]

Rocky was a man of his time but not all time. He and Joe as great as they were just too small for today's fighters.

Louis knocked out several fighters that were as big as todays heavyweights.

[QueensburyRules]

Rocky was a man of his time but not all time. He and Joe as great as they were just too small for today's fighters.

- - Does it follow that today's heavies would be "too big" for Joe/Rocky's era?

As in too clumsy as was the case for big men back then?

[Ascended]

Money, wheres that list bro?

It's coming still i didn't forget i been moving slow cause my list needs updating so ill be watching more people I never seen or been awile since I haven't been watching any lately but I'll get to it man you know when I say I'll do something I do it