How would Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano fare against modern Heavies?

[Ivich]

The boxers Marciano and Louis struggled with were faster, smaller and technically superior to Lewis and Vitali (Wlad isnt that skillful by any margin).

Lewis and Vitali are skillful for big men, but not in the big picture. Lewis was flat footed, especially as he put on weight. This is why he got koed. Lewis had a good jab and nice combinations for a man of his size. Ezzard Charles was better in every single department than Lewis, including the jab - he’s simply just a lot smaller.

so these are completely different fights.

if Rocky Faces Lewis, Lewis has to punch down at a man who’s 5 ft 10 and also squatting. Rocky has to close the distance someone. When he does, he can probably hit Lewis easily inside. Lewis is tall and lanky with a big body. The task at hand is Rocky getting inside. Lewis wouldn’t be landing at will though, it would be an awkward fight for him as well. Rocky doesn’t fight like Tua.

if Lewis fights Louis, well theres plenty of Footage of Louis completely dismantling men as big as Lewis and Vitali.

just my personal opinion, but once fighters start getting too big I believe they start regressing in some categories. You lose agility, stamina and explosive capability. Just because we got big men going at it today doesn’t mean this isn’t true. They still suck, just there aren’t any good smaller men. Not even at 175 or cruiser. Usyk is the best we get and yeah, he’s a champ already go figure - but even Usyk in my book is nothing special outside of a good fighter.

Punching up isnt that easy either! A 68in reach 5 feet ten guy attempting to find the chin of a 6 feet five man has a literally uphill task and he will have to come out of his crouch to do so.That's when you nail him!
Any one ever floor Lewis with a body shot?
How did Lewis do with the short men he faced? Tua,Tyson,Butler,Fortune?
No Rocky doesn't fight like Tua, nor did he have his thick skin and great chin.
Lewis would manhandle and flatten Marciano.imo.
There is no footage of Louis dismantling a fighter as good as Lewis, or one with his power.

[QueensburyRules]

Punching up isnt that easy either! A 68in reach 5 feet ten guy attempting to find the chin of a 6 feet five man has a literally uphill task and he will have to come out of his crouch to do so.That's when you nail him!
Any one ever floor Lewis with a body shot?
How did Lewis do with the short men he faced? Tua,Tyson,Butler,Fortune?
No Rocky doesn't fight like Tua, nor did he have his thick skin and great chin.
Lewis would manhandle and flatten Marciano.imo.
There is no footage of Louis dismantling a fighter as good as Lewis, or one with his power.

- - Zer0 footage of Lewie ever fighting a fighter of Louis caliber much less beating him.

Thanks for the reminder...

[Ivich]

- - Zer0 footage of Lewie ever fighting a fighter of Louis caliber much less beating him.

Thanks for the reminder...

You're a thicko aren't you. I was referring to this statement.

"if Lewis fights Louis, well there's plenty of Footage of Louis completely dismantling men as big as Lewis and Vitali."

Louis never faced a class big guy like them .He fought slow moving hulks like Buddy Baer,Carnera ,and Simon, and Buddy dropped him. The best opposition he beat were probably,Walcott, close 1st fight , Conn168lbs Louis behind on points going into the final round ,Max Baer froze on the night, and Schmeling ,who ko'd Joe in their 1st fight. All would be long odds to even have a chance with Lennox.
Holyfield , Vitali ,and Tyson would give Louis a hard nights work don't worry about that!


Now jog on you fool!

[QueensburyRules]

You're a thicko aren't you. I was referring to this statement.

"if Lewis fights Louis, well there's plenty of Footage of Louis completely dismantling men as big as Lewis and Vitali."

Louis never faced a class big guy like them .He fought slow moving hulks like Buddy Baer,Carnera ,and Simon, and Buddy dropped him. The best opposition he beat were probably,Walcott, close 1st fight , Conn168lbs Louis behind on points going into the final round ,Max Baer froze on the night, and Schmeling ,who ko'd Joe in their 1st fight. All would be long odds to even have a chance with Lennox.
Holyfield , Vitali ,and Tyson would give Louis a hard nights work don't worry about that!


Now jog on you fool!

- - U can squirm, wiggle, and jiggle like any worm might to avoid a proper squishing, but make no mistake that prime Joe Louis would be the best, most dangerous fighter Lewie faced by a long shot.

[Ivich]

- - U can squirm, wiggle, and jiggle like any worm might to avoid a proper squishing, but make no mistake that prime Joe Louis would be the best, most dangerous fighter Lewie faced by a long shot.

I'm not here to spend time on trolls who never tire of typing ****,just for the fun of it, or of being exposed as ****** when asked to provide proof of their loony theories Go do one!

[them_apples]

Why was he cutting weight fighting at heavyweight?

What do you think he'd weight today then?

Because the lighter you are the easier everything is.

putting on weight is probably the biggest farce in boxing and has 0 proof of it serving any benefit whatsoever. You see fighters occasionally come out on fire after moving up but forget that this is likely because of PEDs, a nice big surge of testosterone in a fighter whos levels start dropping after 30.

If you put on weight, it's just weight, that's all it is. There might even be evidence that fat would serve someone better in boxing that extra muscle (bolt on muscle). Extra muscle on a frame means worse technique (muscle bound in regards to frame) Fatigue (more blood pumping) and better punch resistance only if you see the punch coming (you can tense up). If you don't see it, it's lights out either way, the chin doesn't improve.

Muscles built up don't look the same as natural muscles once the skin comes off. It's a small bone with a big muscle built over top, and it doesn't translate to any type of athletic performance. It never has. Holyfield looked better lighter, Norton looked better lighter - even Pacquiao looked his best below 130, his competition just went down as he went up.

You cut weight because weight is just going to make things harder. The only times a fighter was encouraged to put on weight was jumping up to heavyweight and the idea of eating a full meal and feeling as best as possible, with no cutting in camp whatsoever.

Marciano started his career at 192, and with probably the most intense road work routine of all time (literally, he's hardly built like a runner) 10-12 miles up and down hills every day, Marciano was seeking to be the "hardest man to kill" with immense stamina and reoperation powers. We saw this in the ring. At 188 lbs, nobody was able to match Marcianos stamina, and his late round rallies were the GOAT.

[them_apples]

Punching up isnt that easy either! A 68in reach 5 feet ten guy attempting to find the chin of a 6 feet five man has a literally uphill task and he will have to come out of his crouch to do so.That's when you nail him!
Any one ever floor Lewis with a body shot?
How did Lewis do with the short men he faced? Tua,Tyson,Butler,Fortune?
No Rocky doesn't fight like Tua, nor did he have his thick skin and great chin.
Lewis would manhandle and flatten Marciano.imo.
There is no footage of Louis dismantling a fighter as good as Lewis, or one with his power.

Body shots don't have to floor you to be effective. A good body attack destroys the opponents stamina and forces them to lower their hands and ignore their head. If Frazier did it to Ali, Marciano has at least a chance against Lewis with the same strat.

I agree though, Marcianos struggle might become apparent against tall guys, not big guys. His reach is short, shorter than Tysons and Frazier, by a fair bit actually. This is probably what gave him so much leverage, but reaching a head at 6 ft 5 would be hard. If they were skinny he would just break ribs, but Lewis has some meat on him in his prime.

As for Louis vs Lewis, theres a better case for Louis destroying Lewis than the other way around. Lewis never dismantled anyone who was top tier. He had his chance against shop worn Holy (Louis size) and that fight was mediocre, and not the best most dangerous version of Holyfield (207 lbs).

Louis seems to make easy work of the bigger guys he faced, very easy work. Punching bags really. Even with Lewis better boxing skills, Louis I reckon would land something.

[them_apples]

You're a thicko aren't you. I was referring to this statement.

"if Lewis fights Louis, well there's plenty of Footage of Louis completely dismantling men as big as Lewis and Vitali."

Louis never faced a class big guy like them .He fought slow moving hulks like Buddy Baer,Carnera ,and Simon, and Buddy dropped him. The best opposition he beat were probably,Walcott, close 1st fight , Conn168lbs Louis behind on points going into the final round ,Max Baer froze on the night, and Schmeling ,who ko'd Joe in their 1st fight. All would be long odds to even have a chance with Lennox.
Holyfield , Vitali ,and Tyson would give Louis a hard nights work don't worry about that!


Now jog on you fool!

Buddy dropped him, but Mcall and Rahman knocked Lewis out. Both are shorter than Louis or at least similar in size. Louis has the loss to Schmeling, and they both avenged their losses. Difference being schmeling was better than a dude like Rahman who is a C class heavyweight

[them_apples]

Serious question: Is there even one person here of sound mind, who honestly think the most likely scenario is Rocky getting inside, where he breaks down Lewis with body punches? I mean... really??

Yeah, Marciano would turn it up and make the fight ugly. Thats one scenario. ONE scenario, remember that. It would look nothing like Tua vs Lewis, Tua really isn't a pressure fighter - he's just short. rocky has headmovement and the crouch.

Once again though, this is ONE scenario, out of many. I could see him falling short as well. Be clear I said this is ONE scenario. lol. Heart goes a long way, i wouldn't be surprised if rocky is going ape **** trying to get inside in the latter rounds. I also could see Lewis struggling to actually land on a man 5 ft 10 in the crouch.

Just watched Tua vs Lewis for a good size comparison. I'd give Rocky a good chance for sure. He's a better and more determined fighter than Tua. For the weight he's giving up he makes up in stamina, conditioning and even power. (all of rockys punches were hard, Tua had to land the perfect shot).

[Ivich]

Body shots don't have to floor you to be effective. A good body attack destroys the opponents stamina and forces them to lower their hands and ignore their head. If Frazier did it to Ali, Marciano has at least a chance against Lewis with the same strat.

I agree though, Marcianos struggle might become apparent against tall guys, not big guys. His reach is short, shorter than Tysons and Frazier, by a fair bit actually. This is probably what gave him so much leverage, but reaching a head at 6 ft 5 would be hard. If they were skinny he would just break ribs, but Lewis has some meat on him in his prime.

As for Louis vs Lewis, theres a better case for Louis destroying Lewis than the other way around. Lewis never dismantled anyone who was top tier. He had his chance against shop worn Holy (Louis size) and that fight was mediocre, and not the best most dangerous version of Holyfield (207 lbs).

Louis seems to make easy work of the bigger guys he faced, very easy work. Punching bags really. Even with Lewis better boxing skills, Louis I reckon would land something.

Ever see Lennox in trouble from body shots how's that? Frazier had quicker hands than Marciano he was also 20lbs heavier,with better head movement. He caught an unprepared Ali, Ali with the rust shaken off reversed that result.Louis was floored by,moderate, arthritic Braddock,floored by fat,short ,slow ,feet stuck in cement Galento and knocked out of the ring by plodding Buddy Baer,I'd pick Rahman to beat them and also Shannon Briggs,Tony Tucker, and Razor Ruddock.
Louis treated Carnera and Baer like punching bags because that's essentially what they were,I'd pick Micheal Grant and Tommy Morrison to beat them! Lewis' chin is a bit underated he took Vitali's shots and remained erect, in fact he faced some of the heaviest punchers of the last 50 years and stayed vertical.Lennox beat Holyfield and any objective observer concedes that.
Holyfield was 215 and 217 when he fought Lennox who was hardly a kid himself at 33 and 34 !
215 was Evander's weight when he stopped Tyson ,and 217 was his weight when he beat Bowe.these are his two best wins! So you can throw that theory out the window!