Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[billeau2]

You're not supposed to think about it, you're supposed to just buy it.

Because if you think about it what it means for a fighter to be the lineal champion, then you quickly realise that the idea of 2 guys fighting for a vacant lineal title is absurd!

As absurd as two guys fighting as champions for an alphabet belt? And so many of them so we can never have an undisputed? Ok sherlock. And the title is never truly vacant... there is always someone who beat lost to, or beat "the best"

[JAB5239]

Can anyone name a lineal champion as bad as Charles Martin? Just sayin.....

[Willow The Wisp]

In the real world, Fury vs Ngannou wasn't a world title fight, because a fighter with 0 - 0 - 0 record in boxing matches didn't qualify to fight for Fury's WBC title. In lineal loony land, it was a world title fight, and Ngannou came very close to winning a world title that didn't actually exist!

The answer hasn't changed. The most internationally acknowledged title in sports is still a singular thing.

Obstinance and willful ignorance is one thing, but lunacy is a measure beyond. This refusal to accept what the world has acknowledged for 140+ years has got to be a troll thing.

Dust off a book sometime, rather than spending time arguing that we are decended from aliens from Uranus; and other such things.
The facts ALL side with the smart folks.

Anyway; I'll put my Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Klitschko, Fury and Usyk up, as being real, against your Jimmy Ellis, Earnie Terrell, Monte Masters, Trevor Berbick, Francisco Damiani, Adilson Rodrigues, Jimmy Thunder, Michael Bentt, Herbie Hide, Bruce Seldon, Henry Akinwande, John Ruiz, Lamon Brewster, Nicolai Valuev and Siarhei Liakhovich any day, Mr. Man.

History Matters.

[kafkod]

As absurd as two guys fighting as champions for an alphabet belt? And so many of them so we can never have an undisputed? Ok sherlock. And the title is never truly vacant... there is always someone who beat lost to, or beat "the best"

Yes, Captain Obvious, that is exactly why I said that the idea of a vacant lineal title is absurd!

The lineage is not a title, it is a list of the names of those fighters who have been designated as "the lineal champion"

There is no such thing as a lineal title.

[kafkod]

Can anyone name a lineal champion as bad as Charles Martin? Just sayin.....

Can anyone name a WBC, WBA, IBF or WBO champion who failed a PED test, lost his boxing licence after being found medically unfit to fight due to mental illness, announced his retirement from the sport, then came back 2 years later still holding the same title he had before all that shit happened?

[Willow The Wisp]

You're not supposed to think about it, you're supposed to just buy it.

Because if you think about it what it means for a fighter to be the lineal champion, then you quickly realise that the idea of 2 guys fighting for a vacant lineal title is absurd!

You've misinterpreted the meaning of the applied term "Linial" when you suggest that this is a string that cannot be repaired should a standing champion retire or die. Can a lineal succession be broken and repaired? Yes, indeed it can.
And, if it's done properly, inclusively; no one will dispute it. This has been done three times now; and nobody did.

Afterall; somebody's got to be the world's champion; so why not establish who is best in order to do that, on those rare occasions when the method becomes nessisary?

One of the mistakes that you're making is thinking of the title as an object, like the Stanley Cup. It is a designation won in a fight, passed from victor to victor.
Don't bother looking for a "thing" called the "vacant lineal title". On the three occasions when a tournament was used to establish the next champion in the line, all who were established as qualified by wins and losses were invited either to participate against the other contenders, or if they'd just emerged on the scene; challenge the eventual winner of the elimination rounds as the top contender. Nobody was ever left out of the process to complain; including Vitali Klitschko; who was older, stiffer, had other aspirations and had ALWAYS preferred his brother do the heavy lifting.

Hopefully, The Ring will be treated better than it was between 2007 and 2024 so that it can reestablish itself as the trade journal; and the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc., can be forced to close shop.

That would truly aid the sport that thrives the world over in spite of NEVER missing an opportunity to shoot itself in the foot.

[kafkod]

You've misinterpreted the meaning of the applied term "Linial" when you suggest that this is a string that cannot be repaired should a standing champion retire or die. Can a lineal succession be broken and repaired? Yes, indeed it can.
And, if it's done properly, inclusively; no one will dispute it. This has been done three times now; and nobody did.

Afterall; somebody's got to be the world's champion; so why not establish who is best in order to do that, on those rare occasions when the method becomes nessisary?

One of the mistakes that you're making is thinking of the title as an object, like the Stanley Cup. It is a designation won in a fight, passed from victor to victor.
Don't bother looking for a "thing" called the "vacant lineal title". On the three occasions when a tournament was used to establish the next champion in the line, all who were established as qualified by wins and losses were invited either to participate against the other contenders, or if they'd just emerged on the scene; challenge the eventual winner of the elimination rounds as the top contender. Nobody was ever left out of the process to complain; including Vitali Klitschko; who was older, stiffer, had other aspirations and had ALWAYS preferred his brother do the heavy lifting.

Hopefully, The Ring will be treated better than it was between 2007 and 2024 so that it can reestablish itself as the trade journal; and the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc., can be forced to close shop.

That would truly aid the sport that thrives the world over in spite of NEVER missing an opportunity to shoot itself in the foot.

I am absolutely not thinking of the lineal title as an object. I have said, numerous times during this discussion that there is no such thing a a lineal title.

I never heard anything about the Klitschko brothers, or anybody else, being invited to take part in a tournament to establish a new lineal champion. Do you have any evidence for that?

[JAB5239]

Can anyone name a WBC, WBA, IBF or WBO champion who failed a PED test, lost his boxing licence after being found medically unfit to fight due to mental illness, announced his retirement from the sport, then came back 2 years later still holding the same title he had before all that shit happened?

He was the man who beat the man. If you want to say he gave it up in that time period, fine. He still won it back when he beat Wilder in 2020, as the were the two top fighters in the division. Marine wasn't even ranked when he beat the seventh rated Glazkov for the vacant IBF trinket. I'd say Fury was a far better choice as champion with or without an ABC title. In fact it's not even arguable.

[JAB5239]

I am absolutely not thinking of the lineal title as an object. I have said, numerous times during this discussion that there is no such thing a a lineal title.

I never heard anything about the Klitschko brothers, or anybody else, being invited to take part in a tournament to establish a new lineal champion. Do you have any evidence for that?

I'm not sure about a tournament, but what achieved lineal when he was number one, Vits was number two and they wouldn't fight, so when he beat number 3 Chgaev he became the lineal champion.

[kafkod]

He was the man who beat the man. If you want to say he gave it up in that time period, fine. He still won it back when he beat Wilder in 2020, as the were the two top fighters in the division. Marine wasn't even ranked when he beat the seventh rated Glazkov for the vacant IBF trinket. I'd say Fury was a far better choice as champion with or without an ABC title. In fact it's not even arguable.

The Tyson Fury who came back defending his imaginary lineal title against Sefer Seferi and Francesco Pianetta would have lost to Charles Martin. And if Martin had fought the version of Tyson Fury who drew with Wilder in their first fight, my money would have been on Martin.

At the time when Fury and Wilder fought each other they had just one win over a current top 10 ranked opponent between the pair of them!

So why were they number 1 and 2 in the division? Because Queensberry, Top Rank and PBC said so?