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The Best Between 180lbs & 190lbs?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Mr Mitts View Post
    What did Jerry usually weigh?
    Quarry was usually in the 190's to low 200's later in his career in believe. He actually isn't part of what this thread was intended, I only brought him up because Queenie said Beterbiev would ko Patterson. Patterson actually beat or fought on equal terms with fighters..good fighters who were bigger than him. No way to prove Beter would stop him. But i can prove what Floyd accomplished at a higher weight and elite level while being in the weight scope of this thread. That was my only point.
    brodbombefly Marchegiano likes this.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post

      You haven't explained a thing, you've only said I'm wrong. Tell me the differences, I need details. And don't tell me Beter went to the body well against Bivol. He hardly threw and body shots outside of the occasional jab and right cross to the body. Most of the fight was jab, jab, cross and 1-2. Did he mix other punches in? Of course, but not often. Beterbiev is a good fighter and I like him, but he comes straight forward more times than not, using pressure to wear opponents down. You can use all the adjectives you want to tell me why you think I'm wrong, but you still haven't explained why.
      Sometimes I wonder if you can read properly or you just decide to be purposely obtuse. I’ve just told you multiple areas where Beterbiev is overtly better and not only better but vastly better and it’s as if you can’t see with your eyes.

      You do this a lot when confronted on your bizarro world opinion. It’s weird.

      I’ve also literally just explained why it’s not as simple as “go to the body more” against a fighter the calibur of Bivol. It’s not that simple you can’t just “go to the body” against a fighter who is that skilled and that slick with his feet and lateral movement. And despite that, Beterbiev still had sucesss to the body which allowed him to break him down and win the fight down the stretch.

      .

      It’s also ironic that it’s you that’s just repeating the same idiotic observations. “Beterbiev goes straight forward” are you blind? So you’re telling me you have watched Beterbiev-Gzozdyk as an immediate example? I’d put it at 0% chance you have. Because you can hand pick literally any round in that fight and you will see a fighter who is extremely skilled, using constant feints to the body and head to make openings, supreme timing on his punches, good defense and counter punching, and most importantly CLEAR AS DAY in and out movement, angles and literally anything but a fighter that comes “straight forward with power”. Power had almost nothing to do with him winning that fight and that’s against a top quality operator and n Gvozdyk aswell.

      You can essentially pick any fighter Beterbiev has and make these observations. I’m almost positive the first fight you’ve watched of his was the Bivol fight because otherwise someone couldn’t say something so ridiculous.

      As for Jerry Quarry being on any way better or “more complete” than Beterbiev is not even worth addressing it is that plain dumb.

      I would strongly advise you to the further revision on this topic.
      Last edited by IronDanHamza; 01-24-2025, 12:04 PM.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by IronDanHamza View Post

        Sometimes I wonder if you can read properly or you just decide to be purposely obtuse. I’ve just told you multiple areas where Beterbiev is overtly better and not only better but vastly better and it’s as if you can’t see with your eyes.

        You do this a lot when confronted on your bizarro world opinion. It’s weird.

        I’ve also literally just explained why it’s not as simple as “go to the body more” against a fighter the calibur of Bivol. It’s not that simple you can’t just “go to the body” against a fighter who is that skilled and that slick with his feet and lateral movement. And despite that, Beterbiev still had sucesss to the body which allowed him to break him down and win the fight down the stretch.

        .

        It’s also ironic that it’s you that’s just repeating the same idiotic observations. “Beterbiev goes straight forward” are you blind? So you’re telling me you have watched Beterbiev-Gzozdyk as an immediate example? I’d put it at 0% chance you have. Because you can hand pick literally any round in that fight and you will see a fighter who is extremely skilled, using constant feints to the body and head to make openings, supreme timing on his punches, good defense and counter punching, and most importantly CLEAR AS DAY in and out movement, angles and literally anything but a fighter that comes “straight forward with power”. Power had almost nothing to do with him winning that fight and that’s against a top quality operator and n Gvozdyk aswell.

        You can essentially pick any fighter Beterbiev has and make these observations. I’m almost positive the first fight you’ve watched of his was the Bivol fight because otherwise someone couldn’t say something so ridiculous.

        As for Jerry Quarry being on any way better or “more complete” than Beterbiev is not even worth addressing it is that plain dumb.

        I would strongly advise you to the further revision on this topic.
        Man, get out of here. You didn't explain anything. You said Artur went well to the body in rounds 9 vs Bivol. That is the extent of your explanation. And it doesn't change the fact he hardly went to the body before that. You seem to like to say i haven't seen Beterbiev fight, yet you're the one that cannot explain what makes him so much more completenthan Quarry. All this because I made a valid point that there is ZERO proof Beter could stop Floyd, yet there is proof Floyd could hang with bigger fighters than Artur he were as skilled or more, and more accomplished at a higher weight. Good grief man, give it a break. I like Beterbiev, you're just being ridiculous for the sake of argument.
        Mr Mitts Mr Mitts likes this.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Bronson66 View Post
          Please pick your top ten fighters who boxed fairly regularly between180lbs and190lbs,when prime.
          I'll name mine but in no order,if you want to rank yours in terms of greatness, feel free to do so.

          Dempsey
          Langford
          Marciano
          The above stand out from the pack for me.
          Charles
          Schmeling
          Patterson
          Moore
          Tunney
          Loughran
          Bivins
          Something like that.
          * I didn't include Walcott,I didn't feel he did enough between those weights.
          *Neither did I include Fitzsimmons, because his weights are extremely difficult to confirm .
          Feel free to include them or anyone else ,eg ,Corbett ,H Johnson.Machen, if you so wish.
          On the given men I see them as:

          Tier 1.


          1. Tunney
          2. Marciano
          3. Dempsey
          4. Langford


          Tier 2


          5. Charles
          6. Schmeling
          7.Patterson

          Tier 3

          8. Moore
          9. Bivins
          10. Loughran


          I would put in Jeanette at 9 or 10
          And Corbett at 5 or 6

          I choose to put in 12 men.
          Last edited by Dr Z; 01-24-2025, 05:38 PM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post

            Man, get out of here. You didn't explain anything. You said Artur went well to the body in rounds 9 vs Bivol. That is the extent of your explanation. And it doesn't change the fact he hardly went to the body before that. You seem to like to say i haven't seen Beterbiev fight, yet you're the one that cannot explain what makes him so much more completenthan Quarry. All this because I made a valid point that there is ZERO proof Beter could stop Floyd, yet there is proof Floyd could hang with bigger fighters than Artur he were as skilled or more, and more accomplished at a higher weight. Good grief man, give it a break. I like Beterbiev, you're just being ridiculous for the sake of argument.
            Ok so it’s not intentional at this point your brains just kind of slow.

            You have explained NOTHING. You said Jerry Quarry is a more complete fighter and has “better movement” which are both the equivalent to saying the sky is red.

            You’ve made the comical observation that Beterbiev’s “comes straight forward with power” which is equally as moronic which I have quite clearly broken down how that is not the case, using examples.

            I explained WHY it’s not as easy to just “go the body more” agaisnt an operator like Bivol, multiple times.

            You haven’t provided any kind of analysis in any capacity whilst spouting nothing more than utter idiocy.

            And last I don’t give a **** about Floyd Patterson and who would win in a fantasy match up, I responded to your brain dead take that Jerry Quarry is a more complete fighter than Beterbiev.

            I can lead you to clarity but I can’t make you think. If you have actually watched Beterbiev fight, and I mean full fights, and you have the opinion that he walks “straight forward with power” then there is no hope for you. You simply don’t know what is infront of you.
            Last edited by IronDanHamza; 01-25-2025, 06:43 AM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by IronDanHamza View Post

              Ok so it’s not intentional at this point your brains just kind of slow.

              You have explained NOTHING. You said Jerry Quarry is a more complete fighter and has “better movement” which are both the equivalent to saying the sky is red.

              You’ve made the comical observation that Beterbiev’s “comes straight forward with power” which is equally as moronic which I have quite clearly broken down how that is not the case, using examples.

              I explained WHY it’s not as easy to just “go the body more” agaisnt an operator like Bivol, multiple times.

              You haven’t provided any kind of analysis in any capacity whilst spouting nothing more than utter idiocy.

              And last I don’t give a **** about Floyd Patterson and who would win in a fantasy match up, I responded to your brain dead take that Jerry Quarry is a more complete fighter than Beterbiev.

              I can lead you to clarity but I can’t make you think. If you have actually watched Beterbiev fight, and I mean full fights, and you have the opinion that he walks “straight forward with power” then there is no hope for you. You simply don’t know what is infront of you.
              You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking. You're the one who went on a tangent from my original point. You're the one who started insulting again instead. Grow the **** up. You don't like what I said, I asked you to explain why you think Beterbiev is more complete. My question pertains to my original point. You gone on this infantile crusade to make it sound as if I said he has no skills at all which is simply not true. You still have not explained how Artur has a more complete skillset. And you certainly can't explain how he would beat many of the guys Quarry beat.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Bronson66

                Beterbiev landed 1 right hand to the body in rd 9 imo.His corner were imploring him to throw to the body after the 3rd rd.
                Beterbiev didnt really punch to the body until the
                6th rd,1 jab.3 rights.
                7thrd 1 jab 4 rights.
                8thrd 3 rights.
                9thrd 1 right.
                10thrd 3 rights.
                11th rd 3 lefts.
                12 th rd 3 rights.
                Bivol seemed to hit the wall after the 10th rd,Beterbiev dominated the 11th and Bivol couldn't go with him.
                Beterbiev is a fine fighter, but like all the rest he has flaws.
                Of course he is a fine fighter. Fun to watch as well. But just because he is the dominant lightheavyweight now doesn't give him a monopoly on the best skills compared to other fighters. Personally I don't think he is more skilled than Bivol. He was just able to force his will upon him better.
                Last edited by JAB5239; 01-25-2025, 12:00 PM.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Mr Mitts View Post
                  What did Jerry usually weigh?
                  - - Started mid180s, then 190s, then bounced 190-200s where he was was clearly bloated and out of shape.

                  Quarry a fav of mine, but Henry Cooper cut level. Typically usual brain void suspects hate anyone from the original Soviet Empire.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post

                    - - Started mid180s, then 190s, then bounced 190-200s where he was was clearly bloated and out of shape.

                    Quarry a fav of mine, but Henry Cooper cut level. Typically usual brain void suspects hate anyone from the original Soviet Empire.
                    Typically this is the response you recieve when anyone goes against your favorite eastern euros. Doesn't make it true, but it must make you feel better saying it.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post

                      You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking. You're the one who went on a tangent from my original point.
                      So again it's clear you're just quite slow.

                      I didn't go on a tangent. I directly responded to what you said, when you said "Quarry is more complete than Beterbiev" which is moronic. That's not a tangent. Do you know what tangent means?


                      Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
                      You're the one who started insulting again instead. Grow the **** up. You don't like what I said, I asked you to explain why you think Beterbiev is more complete.
                      And I already did explain quite clearly. You then as usual act like it hasn't happened and ask it again even though I've blatantly already directly addressed it. Whilst yourself offer zero analysis of any kind. You can't really breakdown fighters skills, ability etc. It's not something you can do and that's been clear over the years. Your strengths are retaining information such as resumes and dates from books and what not. Your actually understanding and analysis is piss poor for the most part.

                      Originally posted by JAB5239 View Post
                      My question pertains to my original point. You gone on this infantile crusade to make it sound as if I said he has no skills at all which is simply not true. You still have not explained how Artur has a more complete skillset. And you certainly can't explain how he would beat many of the guys Quarry beat.
                      I couldn't give a shit about your original point. I don't care about who wins between him and Floyd Patterson, I didn't mention Floyd Patterson for a reason. I responded directly to a point you tried to make.

                      Why would I explain how he would beat the guy's Quarry beat? What kind of idiotic question is that? That's what I'm talking about, what kind of clueless attempt at an argument is that? Beterbiev is a LHW.....Quarry is HW......Why would arguing for Beterbiev to beat the opponents he beat have any kind of relevance what so ever?

                      You did basically say he had no skills, at worst little skills. You said "he comes straight forward with power" you've said similar things countless times heavily implying he's not a skilled fighter, which is beyond dumb.

                      Ok you I'll just break it down further why that isn't the case since you're not getting it with words;

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlk13SHQLJk


                      Let's look at Round 3 as this is a good round for adjustments being made (8:20) after 2 rounds of Beterbiev taking his time and analyzing Gvozdyk with some different looks, Gvozdyk being the skillful counter puncher he is has success getting off first. Beterbiev then in Round 3 begins to show the adjustments he's made, controlling the distance in the midrange with his front foot position and feints, and timing counter punches when Gvozdyk tries to be first such as 2:38 he times the left hook coming in, doesn't land clean but get's his attention, again at 1:48 with the counter uppercut coming in. This is forcing Gvozdyk to try and throw combinations to get the round back which is playing into Beterbiev's plan, slowly becoming a chess match. The remaining 1 minute and 40 seconds of the round as you can see is totally controlled by Beterbiev, his in and out movment is allowing him to totally outbox Gzodyk from range, his beating him to the punch getting off first now he's got his timing down and he's making him miss and landing counters to the both the body and head.

                      That's just one round, I can analyze every round but that's just one. The remainder of the fight is high level chess all the way though because both are skilled fighters and know each other well. Gzozdyk OUTTHROWING Beterbiev in almost every round, which goes against your "come straight forward" crap. Beterbiev doesn't win this fight with power, he wins it with skillful distance control and timing, eventually breaking him down. He is constantly at mid range, feinting and making openings. At NO POINT IN THE FIGHT does he "walk straight forward" none.

                      Now you go ahead and show me a round, of any Beterbiev fight where he consistently "walks straight forward". Any fight. Any fight where he doesn't take a back step in a round. Not a fight. Just one round, where he isn't at mid range and doesn't move in and out or take any backwards steps.

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