What evidence do we have that heavyweights were too small in the past to compete today? and what determines a fighters size?

[Ivich]

Did I speak to averages or limitations? Alright then, apples and oranges is both fruit buddy but that don't make them the same.


Wlad's got stamina limitation thanks to his size.

Marciano has a stamina advantage thanks to his size.

Your refusal to recognize this speaks louder volumes to your bias than anything I could say from here.



You used Jeffries, 13 years younger, to detract from Fitzs, and then moments later wrote a post about Marciano's stamina being proven against old men. WTF is wrong with you? An iota of self-awareness is all I'm asking for.

What's worse is this post about Marciano's stamina being proven against old men is in response to a post explaining human limitation and natural events that would be required to overcome them.


Let me make this super simple bud:

For any 245 pound healthy human being to match the energy recuperation of any 185 healthy human being requires not adaptation but rather evolution because the human metabolic system can not, as is, possibly keep up.

I did not say Marciano beat Wlad in a pure stamina competition in the framework of boxing at all let alone using his resume as evidence. I said it in the framework of size as it relates to physics and biology.


Marciano's heart WAS stronger than Wlad's heart EVER got to be. Actually. Barring any illnesses of course. Every 185 healthy human has a stronger heart than a 245 healthy human. Dumbass. To claim any 245 pounder can possibly is not to claim adaptation or averages changing, it requires evolution. You ****** prick.

Fitz was 12 years older than Jeffries not 13, and the reason he lost to Jeffries was because he was conceding 39lbs to him and his best punches just bounced off him This is confirmed in the post fight reports and the exact same thing happened in their second fight when Fitz carved his face up but could not stop him. Its not only that in most cases bigger men absorb punches better from smaller men than is the case vice versa,the tugging and mauling against a bigger man tires out the smaller man more quickly.

Wlad gassed out in one fight,against Purrity when he shot his bolt trying to get him out of there.

Foreman had a similar problem in his first career,but it wasn't one of stamina ,it was one of pacing,as an older fatter man in his forties he had no problem going the distance with young guys,disdaining the use of his stool against them.

All your "cod"expressions and pseudo BS amount to just one thing.You really don't know **** all about boxing.
Was Marciano's stamina proven against 37 years old Louis ,38 years old Walcott 33 years old Charles, with nearly100 fights on his clock and 41 years old Moore or not?

Stop Press. Men have gotten taller and heavier over the years,hence heavyweight boxers are in general ,taller and heavier than they were in the 1950's when Marciano was fighting.
Did he ever prove his stamina against a prime class heavyweight of 200lbs plus?

Nino Valdes 6'3" whom Marciano's camp avoided, was described as a giant back then, today he would be at best average for a heavyweight.

Calling me names does not win you arguments it just highlights your lack of vocabulary and self control.
On the plus side, you are unintentionally amusing at times especially when you are busy patting yourself on the back over some imagined pyrrhic victory! lol

"Coincidentally this was posted today on another forum.
Rocky was in a life and death fight with totally shot, old worn out former lightheavyweight, small Ezzard Charles. He was in a hard fight with (42 year old?) former lightheavyweight Moore, and was even floored by that old, small guy. And someone is telling me, that Marciano would stand a chance vs a modern, giant, athletic, maybe the hardest one punch boxer ever? Wlad weighed around 240 pounds in his prime and ko'ed big 235 pound men with single punches. The weight difference would be approx. 55 pounds. It would be an overrated midget vs a top, top skilled boxer. Those that believe that RM stands a chance vs this kind of opponent should be worried about their mental capacity and they probably believe the moon is made out of cheese."
You'd do better to stick to EPEUS and URYALUS,nobody here is interested in them ,and so nobody is liable to pick you up on any of your flowery embellishments and verbiage.

[Ivich]

Oh my God it that impractical base-ten system no one can understand.

They say that the French are shorter because of the Napoleonic wars. Also they have the least difference in height beyween men and women because of their conscription protocol.

Even with musket shot much of the warfare of the day ended with pushing and shoving and the bayonet. So conscripts were chosen by height.

The military would enter a village, line up the young man and take away the four tallest.

The results are displayed in the graph above, so say some historians.

Are men taller on average now than they were in the 1950s?
Simple question requiring a simple answer.

[Willie Pep 229]

Are men taller on average now than they were in the 1950s?
Simple question requiring a simple answer.

Of course. Come on you could see that I was offering a historical digression and not a challenge to your original point.

Have little more faith in me.

The Franks (later the French) were an off shoot of the Germanic tribes as were the Dutch. Yet you can see that they are considerably shorter than the other two. Why? Historians suggest the Napoleonic wars caused this difference. That's all I was adding to the discussion

That's all, just a historical footnote not a challenge to your point.

I think this whole point becomes really interesting when you look at the deliberately inbred for size and later well nutritioned African-American size when compared to Africans today. Something big happened there over the past 200 years.

[Ivich]

Of course. Come on you could see that I was offering a historical digression and not a challenge to your original point.

Have little more faith in me.

The Franks (later the French) were an off shoot of the Germanic tribes as were the Dutch. Yet you can see that they are considerably shorter than the other two. Why? Historians suggest the Napoleonic wars caused this difference. That's all I was adding to the discussion

That's all, just a historical footnote not a challenge to your point.

I think this whole point becomes really interesting when you look at the deliberately inbred for size and later well nutritioned African-American size when compared to Africans today. Something big happened there over the past 200 years.

Oh, I like your posts, any contribution you make is always welcome,my earlier post does look rather blunt doesn't it ,my fault.

[Marchegiano]

Fitz was 12 years older than Jeffries not 13, and the reason he lost to Jeffries was because he was conceding 39lbs to him and his best punches just bounced off him This is confirmed in the post fight reports and the exact same thing happened in their second fight when Fitz carved his face up but could not stop him. Its not only that in most cases bigger men absorb punches better from smaller men than is the case vice versa,the tugging and mauling against a bigger man tires out the smaller man more quickly.

Wlad gassed out in one fight,against Purrity when he shot his bolt trying to get him out of there.

Foreman had a similar problem in his first career,but it wasn't one of stamina ,it was one of pacing,as an older fatter man in his forties he had no problem going the distance with young guys,disdaining the use of his stool against them.

All your "cod"expressions and pseudo BS amount to just one thing.You really don't know **** all about boxing.
Was Marciano's stamina proven against 37 years old Louis ,38 years old Walcott 33 years old Charles, with nearly100 fights on his clock and 41 years old Moore or not?

Stop Press. Men have gotten taller and heavier over the years,hence heavyweight boxers are in general ,taller and heavier than they were in the 1950's when Marciano was fighting.
Did he ever prove his stamina against a prime class heavyweight of 200lbs plus?

Nino Valdes 6'3" whom Marciano's camp avoided, was described as a giant back then, today he would be at best average for a heavyweight.

Calling me names does not win you arguments it just highlights your lack of vocabulary and self control.
On the plus side, you are unintentionally amusing at times especially when you are busy patting yourself on the back over some imagined pyrrhic victory! lol

"Coincidentally this was posted today on another forum.
Rocky was in a life and death fight with totally shot, old worn out former lightheavyweight, small Ezzard Charles. He was in a hard fight with (42 year old?) former lightheavyweight Moore, and was even floored by that old, small guy. And someone is telling me, that Marciano would stand a chance vs a modern, giant, athletic, maybe the hardest one punch boxer ever? Wlad weighed around 240 pounds in his prime and ko'ed big 235 pound men with single punches. The weight difference would be approx. 55 pounds. It would be an overrated midget vs a top, top skilled boxer. Those that believe that RM stands a chance vs this kind of opponent should be worried about their mental capacity and they probably believe the moon is made out of cheese."
You'd do better to stick to EPEUS and URYALUS,nobody here is interested in them ,and so nobody is liable to pick you up on any of your flowery embellishments and verbiage.

Are you ****ing ******ed?

I'll make this even easier for you then. Nothing you've said has **** all anything to do with what I have said. You tard ****.

[Ivich]

Are you ****ing ******ed?

I'll make this even easier for you then. Nothing you've said has **** all anything to do with what I have said. You tard ****.

You really should not use the spurious excuse that a post is off topic to duck questions when you invoke mythical nonsense like below to somehow prove a point about humans .

"Imagine a blue whale. make it twice the size. A blue whale can not structurally hold twice the size without changing its bone structure up. HMMM that interesting ain't it? requires evolution to get bigger.

Take a Cheetah, make it twice the size. A Cheetah can enjoy more size on its structure without anything but thickening its bones. That is adaptation.

Our twice the size of the former upper limit of a cheetah, cheetah, also needs to nap quite a lot more than a regular cheetah and can run quite a lot less distance than a regular cheetah. Because of its size."



It just makes you look even more ridiculous than you are.

If that is even possible.lol

[Marchegiano]

You really should not use the spurious excuse that a post is off topic to duck questions when you invoke mythical nonsense like below to somehow prove a point about humans .

"Imagine a blue whale. make it twice the size. A blue whale can not structurally hold twice the size without changing its bone structure up. HMMM that interesting ain't it? requires evolution to get bigger.

Take a Cheetah, make it twice the size. A Cheetah can enjoy more size on its structure without anything but thickening its bones. That is adaptation.

Our twice the size of the former upper limit of a cheetah, cheetah, also needs to nap quite a lot more than a regular cheetah and can run quite a lot less distance than a regular cheetah. Because of its size."



It just makes you look even more ridiculous than you are.

If that is even possible.lol

No, it is ****ing off topic. I told you, you would not have it in you to admit any size advantage in Marciano's favor. Then I told you at his size he has to have better stamina and a stronger heart than Wlad. Then I told you the lengths it would take for a man the size of Wlad to have as much stamina or as strong a heart as Marciano had.

At no ****ing point was boxing actually part of my Wlad-Marciano comparison other than to say you are so bias you do not have the ability to give Marciano any physical advantage and off you go ranting about boxing.

You've proven my point about your inability to acknowledge any size advantage Marciano had and spoke to a whole bunch of nothing to do with the fact that 245 means you use energy quicker than 185 and rebuild it more slowly.


TF? Dude that's an embarrassment level ass whooping. Goofy prick.


You explain to me TF Purrity has to do with what I said. go for it. ****ing clown.

[Ivich]

No, it is ****ing off topic. I told you, you would not have it in you to admit any size advantage in Marciano's favor. Then I told you at his size he has to have better stamina and a stronger heart than Wlad. Then I told you the lengths it would take for a man the size of Wlad to have as much stamina or as strong a heart as Marciano had.

At no ****ing point was boxing actually part of my Wlad-Marciano comparison other than to say you are so bias you do not have the ability to give Marciano any physical advantage and off you go ranting about boxing.

You've proven my point about your inability to acknowledge any size advantage Marciano had and spoke to a whole bunch of nothing to do with the fact that 245 means you use energy quicker than 185 and rebuild it more slowly.


TF? Dude that's an embarrassment level ass whooping. Goofy prick.


You explain to me TF Purrity has to do with what I said. go for it. ****ing clown.

You stated Wlad had stamina issues,here is your quote.

"Wlad's got stamina limitation thanks to his size."

I pointed out Wlad faded in ONE SINGLE fight , when trying to ko Purrity he failed to pace himself and gassed out.
Marciano at185lbs having a prime 245lbs nearly 8 inches taller Wlad leaning on him and clinching would drain Marciano of his stamina and strength.Just as he did the much bigger than Marciano, Povetkin.
Marciano was a supremely fit man and,for his size very strong that does not mean he could compete with a fit huge man who has so many physical advantages over him. To assert Marciano would have any size advantage over Wlad is totally ludicrous.
"It would be a terrible mismatch." Emmanuel Steward.
Stamina in fights between Marciano and Joshua,Bowe,Lewis,Fury,
Wlad and Vitali would never be a factor,Marciano would be rag dolled by them and clinically taken out before the half way mark .
Marciano did have size advantage in15 of his fights.

Against Wlad he would be facing a better boxer, a bigger puncher ,a stronger man who would dwarf him.
You carry on with your insults,you're winning nothing here,just repeatedly mugging yourself talking about animals and other nonsense.
I have no bias against Marciano ,he was a great fighter and a fine champion who was fortunate to come along when he did,today he would be fighting guys like Beterbiev and have his hands full with him. Would you seriously match Beterbiev with any of the heavies I have named?

It may have escaped you ,but this IS a boxing forum.
But don't answer my questions, its so much easier to go off on another contrived rant isn't it?

[The Defecator]

Bringing back to my younger days when I used to try to spit science at the idiots that make up boxing fans.

I used to say **** like you ***** better tell those ****** science bitches the proof they need for evolution to no longer be a theory can be found in boxing so says old boxing fans who watched the division get bigger as the bodies brought the lower limit up while the displayed array of techniques used by the division became less and less.


There's no alternative apples. You and I are idiots, they're smart, they've proven evolution. Kids these days is just born able to regenerate energy at inhuman rates. They have inhuman reflexes. They have inhuman speed. so on.


The idea that there are biological and structural caps and the only way to break through those caps in big numbers is by evolution.

Imagine a blue whale. make it twice the size. A blue whale can not structurally hold twice the size without changing its bone structure up. HMMM that interesting ain't it? requires evolution to get bigger.

Take a Cheetah, make it twice the size. A Cheetah can enjoy more size on its structure without anything but thickening its bones. That is adaptation.

Our twice the size of the former upper limit of a cheetah, cheetah, also needs to nap quite a lot more than a regular cheetah and can run quite a lot less distance than a regular cheetah. Because of its size.



Has man's bones changed?
Has man's metabolic system changed?


They're not super humans with super special magic muscles you idiots.


Since man hasn't changed, the divisions have changed, it's probably the change in division not species that cause the change in men who make up the division. You ****ing tards.










Here's one, Marciano tires Wlad out. Period, that happens. Any form of contest under the sun where the parameters are stamina, Marciano utterly murders Wlad. Because he has the size advantage to do it. If you think it is possible for a 245er to have the stamina of a 185er you are so ****ing ****** you just claimed evolution to me without being aware enough to know what it is you're claiming you ****** pricks.



In 0 scenarios writen by any of you mooks do you acknowledge the fact that in a potential Marciano vs Klitschko match up it could end with Wlad being too tired to keep up. Refuse to even acknowledge this yet it's us who are goofy. Because marciano smoll doe. ****ing idiots.

Yeah, I have a hard time taking seriously “sports fans” who prattle on about “evolution” when at most they heard it mentioned in junior high biology and that was extent of their education. They like to run their **** holsters about crap they’re utterly ignorant about. They need to get the word evolution out of their mouths and keep it out.

[The D3vil]

Size matters to an extent, but I'd say once you get to around 200lbs, you can compete with anybody and once you get over 235lbs or so, you're actually losing speed, agility, quickness, and endurance, hence Anthony Joshua's gas tank problems over the years and the Vlad's "jab-jab-grab" style,

That's why the 215lb version of Deontay Wilder was so dangerous and he's looked far worse since he gained all the weight and bulked up. He had the quickness, power, wingspan, and endurance, even without an impressive skillset

If Marciano & Louis were fighting today, they'd definitely be advised to put on about 20lbs a piece or fight at Cruiser, because they weren't exactly speed demons.

But smaller heavies like Tyson, Frazier, and Dempsey would have a field day with today's fighters who lack heart, endurance, and speed.

So, I'd say overall, you'd want to be anywhere between 210-230 and somewhere between 5'10 and 6'3 ideally as a HW.