What evidence do we have that heavyweights were too small in the past to compete today? and what determines a fighters size?

[cfang]

The simple fact of the matter here is that people are bigger and heavyweights are bigger. There are exceptions like usyk and im sure absolute outliers like joe Louis could beat a lot of todays heavys but the fact is the heavyweight is where the money is and if it heavys and cruisers could beat all the top heavy’s they’d be fighting them. They aren’t.

[Slugfester]

Size matters to an extent, but I'd say once you get to around 200lbs, you can compete with anybody and once you get over 235lbs or so, you're actually losing speed, agility, quickness, and endurance, hence Anthony Joshua's gas tank problems over the years and the Vlad's "jab-jab-grab" style,

That's why the 215lb version of Deontay Wilder was so dangerous and he's looked far worse since he gained all the weight and bulked up. He had the quickness, power, wingspan, and endurance, even without an impressive skillset

If Marciano & Louis were fighting today, they'd definitely be advised to put on about 20lbs a piece or fight at Cruiser, because they weren't exactly speed demons.

But smaller heavies like Tyson, Frazier, and Dempsey would have a field day with today's fighters who lack heart, endurance, and speed.

So, I'd say overall, you'd want to be anywhere between 210-230 and somewhere between 5'10 and 6'3 ideally as a HW.

You've got it.

[Ivich]

The simple fact of the matter here is that people are bigger and heavyweights are bigger. There are exceptions like usyk and im sure absolute outliers like joe Louis could beat a lot of todays heavys but the fact is the heavyweight is where the money is and if it heavys and cruisers could beat all the top heavy’s they’d be fighting them. They aren’t.

It really baffles me why this is so unpalatable to a few here.

[Ivich]

Size matters to an extent, but I'd say once you get to around 200lbs, you can compete with anybody and once you get over 235lbs or so, you're actually losing speed, agility, quickness, and endurance, hence Anthony Joshua's gas tank problems over the years and the Vlad's "jab-jab-grab" style,

That's why the 215lb version of Deontay Wilder was so dangerous and he's looked far worse since he gained all the weight and bulked up. He had the quickness, power, wingspan, and endurance, even without an impressive skillset

If Marciano & Louis were fighting today, they'd definitely be advised to put on about 20lbs a piece or fight at Cruiser, because they weren't exactly speed demons.

But smaller heavies like Tyson, Frazier, and Dempsey would have a field day with today's fighters who lack heart, endurance, and speed.

So, I'd say overall, you'd want to be anywhere between 210-230 and somewhere between 5'10 and 6'3 ideally as a HW.

I agree in most part with this,but with certain caveats.Joshua's gas tank problems have occurred against men much bigger than Marciano .I don't believe his gas tank would be depleted against a slow 185lbs ,five feet ten man who cut in all his major fights and was not very defensively adept.
If an old tired Joe Louis could jab him with impunity and cause cuts and swelling to both his eyes , Joshua should be able to mark him up pretty badly,and with 240lbs plus behind his jab he should be setting Rocky back on his heels every time he lands it.
Whenever Marciano manages to get inside the 60lbs heavier man would rag doll him.Joshua has a fine uppercut and the half crouching Rocky being so much shorter would be walking right into it.
I think it would be Marciano who would find himself manhandled and battered into exhaustion very early in the fight a fight in which his courage and will to win could result in permanent damage to his health.
Tyson is under 6 feet, but built like a fireplug a solid 200pounds plus fighter who has top drawer,[or very near it power]he also has blazingly fast hands ,coupled with an excellent punch selection, is extremely quick into range and fires bombs from the moment the first bell rings.Tyson had quick feet and knew how to cut the ring off.in his prime he was non stop pressure. once he trapped his man on the ropes it was usually game over.
Frazier was a bobbing and weaving dynamo ,once he got rolling it was full speed ahead,he possessed a very potent left hook, not up with the top drawer guys but he compensated for that by having the ability to seamlessly fire it and reload incessantly.

Like other short men Frazier had only one way to fight to come forward .Against the much bigger Foreman ,no speed demon, he found himself outgunned,constantly pushed back to George's optimum punching range he had no answer to the bigger man's heavier artillery and,when he did get inside George upper cut the life out of him.


Dempsey a crouching, weaving beast looked to overwhelm his man,he had great power,fast hands, quick feet, elusive in attack ,with excellent balance and he could generate top drawer velocity into short punches that took out much bigger men, his ruthless pursuit of the ko was the template for Tyson to later emulate.Jack took a good shot had cut resistant skin, and could box when the occasion demanded.

[Marchegiano]

You stated Wlad had stamina issues,here is your quote.

"Wlad's got stamina limitation thanks to his size."

I pointed out Wlad faded in ONE SINGLE fight , when trying to ko Purrity he failed to pace himself and gassed out.

Cool, now wrap it up and link it.

What does this have to do with me stating you would not have the ability to acknowledge any physical advantage in Marciano's favor, me citing an impossible advantage for Wlad to match, have to do with boxing in any regard?

The closest I got to talking about a match was when I said you wouldn't acknowledge the possibility of that advantage bringing about an outcome.


Wlad gassed once in a fight? Okay. Whatever. What's that to do with the fact that Wlad can't have a 185ers gas tank?



Wlad can not match stamina with Marciano. Period. If he could he'd be a medical marvel and studied for it. Nothing to do with boxing, yet, just let's get you to a place where your bias doesn't prevent you from even acknowledging their are advantages that come with being smaller.




You keep telling me about Marciano's resume and Wlad's career like as if we do not ALL know it very well and it does detract from something I said. It doesn't. It just makes you dumber



Say something relative.

Say something that actually detracts

Say something that forces me to do more than repeat myself in new words at your ****** ass.



Wlad can not match stamina with Marciano. It is a scientific impossibility. All you need to do is tell me Wlad doesn't need it, or claim some magic muscle theory. That's it, but, since you can't acknowledge a smaller man having any advantage over a bigger man you're probably going to cite records some more like as if that has **** all anything to do with what I just told you.









Yo, Fitzs, way more English than Wlad and their ain't **** Wlad going to do about it. Bringing up Haye would be a ****** counter point right? Yes, so is Purrity you dumb ****.

[Marchegiano]

I'm just going to let you morons wrack up a little more then start a thread about the dumbest **** said to me.

Pep's "I Judge past fighters based on their contemporary popularity" just got joined by "I think Wladimir Klitschko proved evolution is not a theory because he only ever gassed against Purrity"

That's another point for Z. He's cooler and slightly smarter than Ivich.

I answered a ton of questions and I know I answered them because instead of telling me I am wrong youse asked new questions. Repeatedly.


How come no one has provided an era in which good men were losing in large numbers?

How come no one has provided a name who was really good but never achieved because of his size?

Why can't any of you acknowledge smaller size advantages?


That's not as many questions as I have answered here only to get a new question thrown at me. One of you goofy old tired pricks could answer one of those. have a go. Teach me something.

Bundana Go on, you're best of them and you know it. Tell me all about the era in which the light end of the HW division is not represented at the top ranks of the HW division. When was that buddy? Who was that buddy?

[Ivich]

Cool, now wrap it up and link it.

What does this have to do with me stating you would not have the ability to acknowledge any physical advantage in Marciano's favor, me citing an impossible advantage for Wlad to match, have to do with boxing in any regard?

The closest I got to talking about a match was when I said you wouldn't acknowledge the possibility of that advantage bringing about an outcome.


Wlad gassed once in a fight? Okay. Whatever. What's that to do with the fact that Wlad can't have a 185ers gas tank?



Wlad can not match stamina with Marciano. Period. If he could he'd be a medical marvel and studied for it. Nothing to do with boxing, yet, just let's get you to a place where your bias doesn't prevent you from even acknowledging their are advantages that come with being smaller.




You keep telling me about Marciano's resume and Wlad's career like as if we do not ALL know it very well and it does detract from something I said. It doesn't. It just makes you dumber



Say something relative.

Say something that actually detracts

Say something that forces me to do more than repeat myself in new words at your ****** ass.



Wlad can not match stamina with Marciano. It is a scientific impossibility. All you need to do is tell me Wlad doesn't need it, or claim some magic muscle theory. That's it, but, since you can't acknowledge a smaller man having any advantage over a bigger man you're probably going to cite records some more like as if that has **** all anything to do with what I just told you.









Yo, Fitzs, way more English than Wlad and their ain't **** Wlad going to do about it. Bringing up Haye would be a ****** counter point right? Yes, so is Purrity you dumb ****.

You seem to be laboring under the delusion I give a good **** what you think about anything.I've told you before and I'll repeat it now,you are just a harmless lunatic.
You're quoting non existant quotes I never made. How mad is that? Compared to you Richard Dadd was sane!

What in Gods name has this below to do with anything?
"Yo, Fitzs, way more English than Wlad and their ain't **** Wlad going to do about it. Bringing up Haye would be a ****** counter point right? Yes, so is Purrity you dumb ****."

You must be," hearing the voices again", go get yourself some help,Mr McMurphy,before the state takes matters into its own hands and commits you .LOL

[Marchegiano]

You seem to be laboring under the delusion I give a good **** what you think about anything.I've told you before and I'll repeat it now,you are just a harmless lunatic.
You're quoting non existant quotes I never made. How mad is that? Compared to you Richard Dadd was sane!

What in Gods name has this below to do with anything?
"Yo, Fitzs, way more English than Wlad and their ain't **** Wlad going to do about it. Bringing up Haye would be a ****** counter point right? Yes, so is Purrity you dumb ****."

You must be," hearing the voices again", go get yourself some help,Mr McMurphy,before the state takes matters into its own hands and commits you .LOL

You were all about gotcha questions just a page ago. You can play ****** all you like but everyone here knows what just happened to you.

Why are you still asking me questions? You start this with you don't care, then you ask me for clarification?


Bro, how ****ing difficult is the concept large men use energy faster and recoup it slower? That's really difficult? Purrity disproves it?

Okay, how that's related to Fitzs is english is they're both something Wlad can NEVER be. You dumb ****.


Clear?


You gonna answer anything ever? Seems like every question you've asked I have provided an answer to. Almost like one of us has a fact advantage almost.

[Marchegiano]

I see the threads you're popping up like the child you are.

Got your ass handed to you, make a new thread and reframe the supposition so it's more favorable than the hole you dug yourself here ... we are all so impressed

You are ****ing pathetic McVey.

[Ivich]

You were all about gotcha questions just a page ago. You can play ****** all you like but everyone here knows what just happened to you.

Why are you still asking me questions? You start this with you don't care, then you ask me for clarification?


Bro, how ****ing difficult is the concept large men use energy faster and recoup it slower? That's really difficult? Purrity disproves it?

Okay, how that's related to Fitzs is english is they're both something Wlad can NEVER be. You dumb ****.


Clear?


You gonna answer anything ever? Seems like every question you've asked I have provided an answer to. Almost like one of us has a fact advantage almost.

I have Never mentioned big men v small men and their respective abilities to use energy and recoup,nor have I EVER offered an opinion on it.
I have also NEVER commented on Wlads origins as opposed to Fitz's

You are arguing with yourself about a subject you have constructed in your own little mind ,did "the voices tell you to do it"?
I can only wish you joy of your latest preamble into the Twilight Zone

I don't know what universe you inhabit ,but it clearly is not Planet Earth!
You stay safe and warm, you nutcase! LOL