What evidence do we have that heavyweights were too small in the past to compete today? and what determines a fighters size?

[Marchegiano]

That is not 200lbs plus and Jones had a 74 reach, along with great reflexes, and tremendously fast hands.

Why didn't Jones pursue a fight with Lewis ?

Why did he immediately drop down a division?
The big money was in the heavyweight division ,why did he not stay there?

I wasn't asked to hit any of those specific marks. I was asked what HW under 205 was rated since Spinks. Nothing here detracts from who I answered that question.

If you had a brain you'd realize reach, being something important and a thing you can rely on to explain why Roy weighing 193 pounds became a HW champion, enforces my position.


Oh it's reach now? Reach and PEDs? Well guess what you pair of dumb****s, ain't no reach divisions, ain't no PED divisions, but somehow, out of your own tard mouth, reach can be used to subject weight?

I dunno, why didn't Lennox fight John Ruiz and keep undisputed? He doesn't much mention the money he made by dropping the undisputed but his ass sure does mention being undisputed quite often.

Maybe being the only man in the history of boxing to go from MW to HW and make weight and win a title, was actually following the path of Fitzs?

But you know, dudes with hundred of millions of dollars and the love and respect of millions of people don't need more of either so who TF knows and why TF are you turning what should be a conversation about CAUSE into a conversation about SPECULATION. A conversation about HISTORY into a conversation about PSYCHOLOGY.

Weird that huh? I ain't asked you about how any boxers felt. Wonder why I don't feel the need to turn a conversation about facts and history into a conversation about feelings. That's rhetorical you dummy.

[Marchegiano]

People canât evolve in 50 years! Some are still alive today

Bringing back to my younger days when I used to try to spit science at the idiots that make up boxing fans.

I used to say **** like you ***** better tell those ****** science bitches the proof they need for evolution to no longer be a theory can be found in boxing so says old boxing fans who watched the division get bigger as the bodies brought the lower limit up while the displayed array of techniques used by the division became less and less.


There's no alternative apples. You and I are idiots, they're smart, they've proven evolution. Kids these days is just born able to regenerate energy at inhuman rates. They have inhuman reflexes. They have inhuman speed. so on.


The idea that there are biological and structural caps and the only way to break through those caps in big numbers is by evolution.

Imagine a blue whale. make it twice the size. A blue whale can not structurally hold twice the size without changing its bone structure up. HMMM that interesting ain't it? requires evolution to get bigger.

Take a Cheetah, make it twice the size. A Cheetah can enjoy more size on its structure without anything but thickening its bones. That is adaptation.

Our twice the size of the former upper limit of a cheetah, cheetah, also needs to nap quite a lot more than a regular cheetah and can run quite a lot less distance than a regular cheetah. Because of its size.



Has man's bones changed?
Has man's metabolic system changed?


They're not super humans with super special magic muscles you idiots.


Since man hasn't changed, the divisions have changed, it's probably the change in division not species that cause the change in men who make up the division. You ****ing tards.










Here's one, Marciano tires Wlad out. Period, that happens. Any form of contest under the sun where the parameters are stamina, Marciano utterly murders Wlad. Because he has the size advantage to do it. If you think it is possible for a 245er to have the stamina of a 185er you are so ****ing ****** you just claimed evolution to me without being aware enough to know what it is you're claiming you ****** pricks.



In 0 scenarios writen by any of you mooks do you acknowledge the fact that in a potential Marciano vs Klitschko match up it could end with Wlad being too tired to keep up. Refuse to even acknowledge this yet it's us who are goofy. Because marciano smoll doe. ****ing idiots.

[them_apples]

Bringing back to my younger days when I used to try to spit science at the idiots that make up boxing fans.

I used to say **** like you ***** better tell those ****** science bitches the proof they need for evolution to no longer be a theory can be found in boxing so says old boxing fans who watched the division get bigger as the bodies brought the lower limit up while the displayed array of techniques used by the division became less and less.


There's no alternative apples. You and I are idiots, they're smart, they've proven evolution. Kids these days is just born able to regenerate energy at inhuman rates. They have inhuman reflexes. They have inhuman speed. so on.


The idea that there are biological and structural caps and the only way to break through those caps in big numbers is by evolution.

Imagine a blue whale. make it twice the size. A blue whale can not structurally hold twice the size without changing its bone structure up. HMMM that interesting ain't it? requires evolution to get bigger.

Take a Cheetah, make it twice the size. A Cheetah can enjoy more size on its structure without anything but thickening its bones. That is adaptation.

Our twice the size of the former upper limit of a cheetah, cheetah, also needs to nap quite a lot more than a regular cheetah and can run quite a lot less distance than a regular cheetah. Because of its size.



Has man's bones changed?
Has man's metabolic system changed?


They're not super humans with super special magic muscles you idiots.


Since man hasn't changed, the divisions have changed, it's probably the change in division not species that cause the change in men who make up the division. You ****ing tards.










Here's one, Marciano tires Wlad out. Period, that happens. Any form of contest under the sun where the parameters are stamina, Marciano utterly murders Wlad. Because he has the size advantage to do it. If you think it is possible for a 245er to have the stamina of a 185er you are so ****ing ****** you just claimed evolution to me without being aware enough to know what it is you're claiming you ****** pricks.



In 0 scenarios writen by any of you mooks do you acknowledge the fact that in a potential Marciano vs Klitschko match up it could end with Wlad being too tired to keep up. Refuse to even acknowledge this yet it's us who are goofy. Because marciano smoll doe. ****ing idiots.

Yes exactly. And we have proof with our own eyes. The human cannot evolve that fast. Its simply men carrying more weight from excess calories and less cardio. This is the only possibility. Even the height probabilities will only produce more of a type of person who already existed, but this is a small factor considering there were also a lot of naturally strong people that perhaps got bred out. That TED talk on olympians was proving this. It even went on to say the same percentage of the population is over 7 ft, just more of them found basketball something they could do. Previously being 7ft was not something useful.

I’ve never met a modern man and thought wow, these guys are just built different. No, they seem like giant blow up dolls stuffed with cheap cereal.

[them_apples]

Connolly was a nobody who beat nobody his record was 6-5-3.
Jackson was a fat tub of lard his record was 4-2-0 he lost to Rocky ,was 4-3-0 and never fought again
Shkorr was a journeyman who had been kod in1 round by Walcott in his last fight, he had won just 1 of his last 8 fights.
Wilson was a journeyman who had lost to177lbs Nardico in his previous fight he was stopped 10 times.The Marciano fight proved nothing Wilson got a bad cut eye in the 1 st minute of the fight and it was stopped.
Marciano's other opponents of 200lbs or over were;

Washed up Savold who had his licence withdrawn after the fight.

Washed up 37 years old Louis who retired in the dressing room after the fight.

Eatman who laid down from the first good shot he took.

Fat ****ell who was a decent lhvy before he contracted glandular fever and his weight went through the roof,he had been knocked down multiple times and ko'd by middleweight Turpin.
Marciano hit him in the kidneys,hit him low 3 or 4 times,butted him,hit him when he was on the floor,and hit him after the bell,he also stipulated they fought in a tiny 16 ft ring,and it still took him9 rounds to get rid of him the fight was stopped with ****ell on his feet.

Donato 200lbs was7-13-0.Donato was stopped 7 times,he would have 2 more fights get kod in both of them and retire.

Simmons 8-8-1ended up 9-22-1 he primarily made his living as a sparring partner,he cut Marciano so badly the referee was thinking of stopping the fight.
Those are the 200 pounders Rocky fought.
Marciano was fed a collection of nobodies to start with as most boxers are,he faced very, very few ****ers,the best 2 he met dropped him,one was 38 years old the other 41.

Louis ko'd ranked big men.

Marciano stopped a lot of set- ups.
In his 1st 15 fights
Marciano's opponents were
0-0-0
3-5-0
1-1-0
8-8-0
His next fight was Ross?
He was believed to be a ringer
9-3-1
4-2-0
1-4-0
000
2-2-2
8-5-0
4-10-0
9-5-0
7-10- 0
9-15-1
In his 33rd fight Marciano faced181lbs Harold Mitchell 7-13-1 Michell had not won any of his last 11 fights,,he would have 2 more ,lose them and retire.


In his 15th fight Louis faced ranked Ramage 40-9-5
19th Carnera
20th Levinsky
21st Baer
22nd Uzcudun
23rdRetzlaff
36th Schmeling

Please don't compare Marciano's opposition to Louis'!

Doesn’t matter, the fact that they were that big and Marciano only weighed 186 is all we are talking about. They should be too big for Marciano. You are saying he’s too small.

so now other factors clearly matter.

yea they do and they always did and this is my main point.

Marciano started late and had little to no amateur career. Goldman had to devlope Marciano during his career. By the end Marciano was top tier, and retired on top. The real reason is he simply did not want to pay his promoter any more money, as well as his ability to work so hard constantly was waning.

[Ivich]

DoesnâÃÂÃÂt matter, the fact that they were that big and Marciano only weighed 186 is all we are talking about. They should be too big for Marciano. You are saying heâÃÂÃÂs too small.

so now other factors clearly matter.

yea they do and they always did and this is my main point.

Marciano started late and had little to no amateur career. Goldman had to devlope Marciano during his career. By the end Marciano was top tier, and retired on top. The real reason is he simply did not want to pay his promoter any more money, as well as his ability to work so hard constantly was waning.

You have stated that ALL Marciano's fights were just one sided survival exercises for his opponents
How do you then account for three of Marciano's fights being FIGHT OF THE YEAR?

Walcott1

Lastarza 2

Charles 2

Fights Of The Year have to be competitive to qualify for that title don't they?

Was this fight one sided?

1952-9-23 Jersey Joe Walcott vs Rocky Marciano I (FOTY) (youtube.com)

[Ivich]

Bringing back to my younger days when I used to try to spit science at the idiots that make up boxing fans.

I used to say **** like you ***** better tell those ****** science bitches the proof they need for evolution to no longer be a theory can be found in boxing so says old boxing fans who watched the division get bigger as the bodies brought the lower limit up while the displayed array of techniques used by the division became less and less.


There's no alternative apples. You and I are idiots, they're smart, they've proven evolution. Kids these days is just born able to regenerate energy at inhuman rates. They have inhuman reflexes. They have inhuman speed. so on.


The idea that there are biological and structural caps and the only way to break through those caps in big numbers is by evolution.

Imagine a blue whale. make it twice the size. A blue whale can not structurally hold twice the size without changing its bone structure up. HMMM that interesting ain't it? requires evolution to get bigger.

Take a Cheetah, make it twice the size. A Cheetah can enjoy more size on its structure without anything but thickening its bones. That is adaptation.

Our twice the size of the former upper limit of a cheetah, cheetah, also needs to nap quite a lot more than a regular cheetah and can run quite a lot less distance than a regular cheetah. Because of its size.



Has man's bones changed?
Has man's metabolic system changed?


They're not super humans with super special magic muscles you idiots.


Since man hasn't changed, the divisions have changed, it's probably the change in division not species that cause the change in men who make up the division. You ****ing tards.










Here's one, Marciano tires Wlad out. Period, that happens. Any form of contest under the sun where the parameters are stamina, Marciano utterly murders Wlad. Because he has the size advantage to do it. If you think it is possible for a 245er to have the stamina of a 185er you are so ****ing ****** you just claimed evolution to me without being aware enough to know what it is you're claiming you ****** pricks.



In 0 scenarios writen by any of you mooks do you acknowledge the fact that in a potential Marciano vs Klitschko match up it could end with Wlad being too tired to keep up. Refuse to even acknowledge this yet it's us who are goofy. Because marciano smoll doe. ****ing idiots.

Marciano's stamina was proven against older, past prime men.Stamina in a fight between Wlad and Marciano would not be a factor because Marciano would not see more than 5 rds before being belted into oblivion, or rescued by the referee with his face a bloody mess.
Man hasn't changed?
image.png


You do write a load of hogwash!

[Ivich]

I wasn't asked to hit any of those specific marks. I was asked what HW under 205 was rated since Spinks. Nothing here detracts from who I answered that question.

If you had a brain you'd realize reach, being something important and a thing you can rely on to explain why Roy weighing 193 pounds became a HW champion, enforces my position.


Oh it's reach now? Reach and PEDs? Well guess what you pair of dumb****s, ain't no reach divisions, ain't no PED divisions, but somehow, out of your own tard mouth, reach can be used to subject weight?

I dunno, why didn't Lennox fight John Ruiz and keep undisputed? He doesn't much mention the money he made by dropping the undisputed but his ass sure does mention being undisputed quite often.

Maybe being the only man in the history of boxing to go from MW to HW and make weight and win a title, was actually following the path of Fitzs?

But you know, dudes with hundred of millions of dollars and the love and respect of millions of people don't need more of either so who TF knows and why TF are you turning what should be a conversation about CAUSE into a conversation about SPECULATION. A conversation about HISTORY into a conversation about PSYCHOLOGY.

Weird that huh? I ain't asked you about how any boxers felt. Wonder why I don't feel the need to turn a conversation about facts and history into a conversation about feelings. That's rhetorical you dummy.

Jones beat Ruiz because he was.
A much better boxer.Much faster.A heavyweight himself.Ruiz wasn't very good to start with.
Why did Jones add 20lbs to his frame to fight Ruiz if size doesn't matter?

Why did Michael Spinks Michael Moorer, Evander Holyfield ,and Olexsandr Usyk all do the same thing?

If Jones felt he had real chances against the class heavyweights why didn't he fight them ,that's where the money was and always has been?

Fitz beat a man who weighed 183lbs, when he fought a top heavyweight who was over 200lbs he got ko'd twice!

How many light heavyweights have won the heavyweight title?

How many of them added muscle to their frames to do so?

Any of them NOT add muscle to compete at heavy?

How many men under 6 feet tall and under 190lbs have won the heavyweight title since Marciano? Heavyweights have gotten progressively bigger over the years, they have also gotten better coordinated than the giants of the past.To deny this is just absurdity,but then you are absurd aren't you.

[Marchegiano]

Jones beat Ruiz because he was.
A better boxer.Much faster.A heavyweight himself.

Fitz beat a man who weighed 183lbs, when he fought a top heavyweight who was over 200lbs he got ko'd twice!

How many light heavyweights have won the heavyweight title?

How many of them added muscle to their frames to do so?

Any of them NOT add muscle to compete at heavy?

How many men under 6feet tall and under 190lbs have won the heavyweight title since Marciano?

Dude you just keep moving the goal post.



Isn't that a cute catch-22 Apples? Fitzs, who is 13 years Jeffries elder, lost because he was too small for Jeffries. However, Marciano, 9 years younger than Louis, gets no credit for defeating Louis because Louis was old.

Let me just repeat that:

Jim Jeffries is 13 years younger than Bob Fitzsimmons.

Rocky Marciano is 9 years younger than Joe Louis.

What the **** bro?

Why should I answer the rest if you can't read and respond to what I say? You just keep moving the goal post. Another "so answer this then" For ****'s sake you answer for something, *******.

[Marchegiano]

Marciano's stamina was proven against older, past prime men.Stamina in a fight between Wlad and Marciano would not be a factor because Marciano would not see more than 5 rds before being belted into oblivion, or rescued by the referee with his face a bloody mess.
Man hasn't changed?
image.png


You do write a load of hogwash!

Did I speak to averages or limitations? Alright then, apples and oranges is both fruit buddy but that don't make them the same.


Wlad's got stamina limitation thanks to his size.

Marciano has a stamina advantage thanks to his size.

Your refusal to recognize this speaks louder volumes to your bias than anything I could say from here.



You used Jeffries, 13 years younger, to detract from Fitzs, and then moments later wrote a post about Marciano's stamina being proven against old men. WTF is wrong with you? An iota of self-awareness is all I'm asking for.

What's worse is this post about Marciano's stamina being proven against old men is in response to a post explaining human limitation and natural events that would be required to overcome them.


Let me make this super simple bud:

For any 245 pound healthy human being to match the energy recuperation of any 185 healthy human being requires not adaptation but rather evolution because the human metabolic system can not, as is, possibly keep up.

I did not say Marciano beat Wlad in a pure stamina competition in the framework of boxing at all let alone using his resume as evidence. I said it in the framework of size as it relates to physics and biology.


Marciano's heart WAS stronger than Wlad's heart EVER got to be. Actually. Barring any illnesses of course. Every 185 healthy human has a stronger heart than a 245 healthy human. Dumbass. To claim any 245 pounder can possibly is not to claim adaptation or averages changing, it requires evolution. You ****** prick.

[Willie Pep 229]

Marciano's stamina was proven against older, past prime men.Stamina in a fight between Wlad and Marciano would not be a factor because Marciano would not see more than 5 rds before being belted into oblivion, or rescued by the referee with his face a bloody mess.
Man hasn't changed?
image.png


You do write a load of hogwash!

Oh my God it that impractical base-ten system no one can understand.

They say that the French are shorter because of the Napoleonic wars. Also they have the least difference in height beyween men and women because of their conscription protocol.

Even with musket shot much of the warfare of the day ended with pushing and shoving and the bayonet. So conscripts were chosen by height.

The military would enter a village, line up the young man and take away the four tallest.

The results are displayed in the graph above, so say some historians.