Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

[Ivich]

So rather than admit you are wrong, you want to search for a quote that doesn't change the fact that Robinson ducked Burley. Typical from you. Robinson priced himself out rather than fight him.

I'll admit I am wrong when you manage to prove it! What I just did was to post the whole quote .
THE SAME QUOTE YOU POSTED JUST A PART OF LEAVING OUT THE IMPORTANT PART BECAUSE IT DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS WHAT YOU SAID!

THERE WAS NO MONEY IN A FIGHT WITH BURLEY AND BURLEY HIMSELF SAID SO!!!!!!

You're so ludicrously and transparently biased its actually amusing!

Robinson had no trouble fighting a series with Lamotta who BTW was higher ranked than those of the Row in the majority of their fights because Lamotta was a crowd pleaser, a NY native who was guaranteed to put bums on seats and make Robinson big money,

WTF would he take on the number 2 contender in a weight division above him for peanuts?
You exhibit no sense, no logic, and therefore no valid argument !

You and Mr ****** just keep on liking each others posts, because nobody else is going to!
I'LL MAKE YOU A BET THAT CONTENDER ROBINSON MADE MORE MONEY FIGHTING UNRANKED ARTIE LEVINE IN
1946 $ 12,500 ,THAN BURLEY MADE FOR ANY ONE FIGHT!
LETS SEE WHO KNOWS WHAT AND WHO IS PREPARED TO BACK HIS KNOWLEDGE? NOW GET READING HARRY OTTY'S BOOK WHICH I BOUGHT 6 YEARS AGO!

[Willie Pep 229]

Oh so addition to the black murder row and Archie Moore no fights with Coco. Looks like someone isn't fighting the best black fighters if the times, save Lloyd Marshal who he lost in the first fight and came back for behind the TKO him late in the 2nd. Sugar Ray Robinson was cut is both fights.


https://theneutralcornerboxingdotcom...-golden-eight/

I find it hilarious that you quote Compton. Are you at odds with him too? - Dr. Z






I don't want to quote Klompton, but he called you out on BS more than once. Brutally so. He doesn't like me. Maybe it's because called him out when he said Italians have it in their DNA to cheat. Back to topic.


The Associated Press scored the first fight 9-4-2 for Turpin.


In the second on Robinson came on late to TKO him. Read the report!

• Turpin won rounds eight and nine on all three scorecards and opened a bad gash over Robinson's left eye in the tenth.
• Robinson dropped Turpin with a right to the jaw in the tenth. After getting up at the count of nine, Turpin was battered along the ropes until the referee stopped the fight.

• Turpin: "The referee should not have stopped it. I was perfectly keen. There were only eight seconds to go in the round, and I was covering up."

Anyway he fought Turpin twice and was 1-1. He clearly missed out on fights with other talented black fighters! That is my point. As usual you ignore the facts.

Yea, but the Italians do cheat. Damn, after Monzon KOed Benvenuti the crowd tried to attack the referee for having the audacity to count Nino out. Who did he think he was, the referee or something?

But the truth is there is always a 'house corner" we all know that. Sometimes it's culture, other times it's about promoters, and sometimes it's even the broadcasters, e.g. HBO didn't like seeing its ratings dive after Tyson was exposed in Japan.

[Willie Pep 229]

What is The Black Murder's Row [SIC] ?

First off, it's "Murderers' Row" and it belongs to the New York Yankees.

Earle Combs (.325) , Mark Koenig (.279), Babe Ruth (.342), Lou Gehrig (.340), Bob Meusel (.309), and Tony Lazzeri (.292)

BTW These are lifetime averages. The year (1927) the term was coined, all six had better than their average year.

Now that's a Murderers' Row. One hell of a 'top of the order' for a pitcher to deal with.

What is a Black Murder's Row?

These guys didn't follow eachother into the ring, where's the row?

Is there even a single fighter who fought all of them in anything that can be considered a 'row of bouts' ?

They were good but none of them ever dominated the fight game the way the Yankees dominated baseball. Not even close.

Sounds more like a sports-writer, overwriting; stealing and pushing the metaphor too far. You know, a hack.*

Then again most didn't write all that well anyway, it's why they wrote for the sports page.

P.S. They used the term 'black'? That, for the 1940s, surprises me.

Negro was the white (often condescending) polite term, and colored was the polite term. Only radicals like Du Bois or Langston Hughes used the term black.

*Yea, yea, I know which writer coined the term. But great knowledge and insight doesn't necessarily guarantee literally talent.

Talk about overrated. Murderers' Row, I think not.

[GhostofDempsey]

I'll admit I am wrong when you manage to prove it! What I just did was to post the whole quote .
THE SAME QUOTE YOU POSTED JUST A PART OF LEAVING OUT THE IMPORTANT PART BECAUSE IT DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS WHAT YOU SAID!

THERE WAS NO MONEY IN A FIGHT WITH BURLEY AND BURLEY HIMSELF SAID SO!!!!!!

You're so ludicrously and transparently biased its actually amusing!

Robinson had no trouble fighting a series with Lamotta who BTW was higher ranked than those of the Row in the majority of their fights because Lamotta was a crowd pleaser, a NY native who was guaranteed to put bums on seats and make Robinson big money,

WTF would he take on the number 2 contender in a weight division above him for peanuts?
You exhibit no sense, no logic, and therefore no valid argument !

You and Mr ****** just keep on liking each others posts, because nobody else is going to!
I'LL MAKE YOU A BET THAT CONTENDER ROBINSON MADE MORE MONEY FIGHTING UNRANKED ARTIE LEVINE IN
1946 $ 12,500 ,THAN BURLEY MADE FOR ANY ONE FIGHT!
LETS SEE WHO KNOWS WHAT AND WHO IS PREPARED TO BACK HIS KNOWLEDGE? NOW GET READING HARRY OTTY'S BOOK WHICH I BOUGHT 6 YEARS AGO!

Partial or full quote it doesn’t matter. I posted what I found, I didn’t intentionally omit anything. Regardless, Robinson avoided Burley. It’s well documented. You stubbornly have to disagree or try to find some petty loophole in an argument so you won’t have to admit you’re wrong. Robinson fought a lot of no-hopers during his career, clearly Burley deserved a fight ahead of them.

I’m actually a fan of Robinson, I consider him a top five P4P great. But the facts are, he avoided he black murderer’s row. I just proved it to you and you’re still shouting in all caps and being hysterical.

[Ivich]

Partial or full quote it doesn’t matter. I posted what I found, I didn’t intentionally omit anything. Regardless, Robinson avoided Burley. It’s well documented. You stubbornly have to disagree or try to find some petty loophole in an argument so you won’t have to admit you’re wrong. Robinson fought a lot of no-hopers during his career, clearly Burley deserved a fight ahead of them.

I’m actually a fan of Robinson, I consider him a top five P4P great. But the facts are, he avoided he black murderer’s row. I just proved it to you and you’re still shouting in all caps and being hysterical.

The full quote shows emphatically there was no money in a fight with Burley,and that is from Burley himself!

Instead of fighting Burley and the others no1 contender Robinson took on two men rated above them.that is not a duck!

If you want to know who ducked Burley and Cocoa Kid,it was the then champion Armstrong who bypassed then at no 1 and 2 and instead fought the number 4 Zivic!
The paradox here is that you deny Champion Dempsey avoided his number 1 challenger Wills for 5 years and instead fought lower hanging fruit but accuse Robinson who was a contender for ducking men, when instead he fought men rated above them !

I've asked you 3 times to provide dates when these men should have gotten fights with Robinson ,you haven't done so.All you keep repeating is its well documented,well no it isnt! Provide proof! In every case Robinson fought men rated higher or men in his own weight class!

I'm not hysterical, I just see the wilful hypocrisy and double standard in your argument.
I see you haven't mentioned my bet.,you know Burley drew dismal crowds,and the reports of his fights often with others in The Row are less than scintillating and often extremely underwhelming. Burley made so little money he worked as a refuse collector,why would Robinson go up a weight class and fight him for chump change?

[Ivich]

Partial or full quote it doesn’t matter. I posted what I found, I didn’t intentionally omit anything. Regardless, Robinson avoided Burley. It’s well documented. You stubbornly have to disagree or try to find some petty loophole in an argument so you won’t have to admit you’re wrong. Robinson fought a lot of no-hopers during his career, clearly Burley deserved a fight ahead of them.

I’m actually a fan of Robinson, I consider him a top five P4P great. But the facts are, he avoided he black murderer’s row. I just proved it to you and you’re still shouting in all caps and being hysterical.

Now for some FACTS !
After1942 No Murderers Row were ranked in the welterweight division.
In 1941Robinson entered the ratings at no1
1941
1.Robinson
2.Wilson
3 Zivic
5 Burley

1942
1.Robinson
2.Arnstrong
3.Wilson
4. Cocoa Kid
Robinson fought and beat
Wilson
Zivic
Wilson
All ranked above Burley and Cocoa Kid so how,[ especially as Robinson , was not even champion until1946 ,]does that constitute a duck?



After 1950 No Murderers Row were ranked in the middleweight division.
Robinson won the middleweight title in 1951.
You have no answer to this, and hence no argument.

[Dr. Z]

Now for some FACTS !
After1942 No Murderers Row were ranked in the welterweight division.
In 1941Robinson entered the ratings at no1
1941
1.Robinson
2.Wilson
3 Zivic
5 Burley

1942
1.Robinson
2.Arnstrong
3.Wilson
4. Cocoa Kid
Robinson fought and beat
Wilson
Zivic
Wilson
All ranked above Burley and Cocoa Kid so how,[ especially as Robinson , was not even champion until1946 ,]does that constitute a duck?



After 1950 No Murderers Row were ranked in the middleweight division.
Robinson won the middleweight title in 1951.
You have no answer to this, and hence no argument.

So you think Zivic and Wilson were better than Burley? Speak up because that is what you're arguing! Be a man for once and admit I am correct.


By the way Robinson fought Jake Lamotta in 1942! So much for you " thinking " he would not fight a middle weight

[IronDanHamza]

Now for some FACTS !
After1942 No Murderers Row were ranked in the welterweight division.
In 1941Robinson entered the ratings at no1
1941
1.Robinson
2.Wilson
3 Zivic
5 Burley

1942
1.Robinson
2.Arnstrong
3.Wilson
4. Cocoa Kid
Robinson fought and beat
Wilson
Zivic
Wilson
All ranked above Burley and Cocoa Kid so how,[ especially as Robinson , was not even champion until1946 ,]does that constitute a duck?



After 1950 No Murderers Row were ranked in the middleweight division.
Robinson won the middleweight title in 1951.
You have no answer to this, and hence no argument.

Just because someone beats someone ranked higher doesn’t necessarily mean that they didn’t avoid someone else.

I’m not saying Robinson “ducked” Cocoa Kid but he obviously had no interest in fighting him, since he turned him down twice.

He got dropped by him in a sparring session after the fact.

[Ivich]

So you think Zivic and Wilson were better than Burley? Speak up because that is what you're arguing! Be a man for once and admit I am correct.


By the way Robinson fought Jake Lamotta in 1942! So much for you " thinking " he would not fight a middle weight

I KNOW they were both ranked above him that is unarguable! What is also unarguable is if you fight the 2 men ranked above a fighter,by definition you cannot be ducking him . Wilson had beaten Cocoa kid so it can be argued he had proven himself the better man.
Point out any of my posts in which I said Robinson would NOT fight a middleweight? Two posts ago I stated he was happy to concede a ton of weight to a ranked middleweight when the financial rewards made it a viable proposition.
You being illiterate makes it pretty hard to explain things to you! Robinson made ton of cash fighting Lamotta because both were crowd favourites. Burley turned crowds OFF.look at the gates they made the comparative ,purses and the arenas they fought in.
Even a half wit like you should be able to grasp this!

Robinson fought Lamotta in;

MSG 1943 they drew 15,3071 for a gate of $60,789


Olympic Stadium Detroit 1943.They drew18,930 through the turnstiles.

What was the biggest gate Burley ever drew?
What was his biggest purse?

[Ivich]

Just because someone beats someone ranked higher doesn’t necessarily mean that they didn’t avoid someone else.

I’m not saying Robinson “ducked” Cocoa Kid but he obviously had no interest in fighting him, since he turned him down twice.

He got dropped by him in a sparring session after the fact.

Dropped in a sparring session ! Wow!
Marciano was dropped in a spar by Toxie Hall.
Vitali Klitschko was dropped in sparring by Travis Walker & Raphael Butler.
Sonny Liston by Ray Patterson.
Mike Tyson by Greg Page.

I guess they should all have fought them!
Ask yourself this, Cocoa Kid had been retired for a year
Q What did Ray stand to gain reputation wise from fighting him?
Q How big a financial reward would it have represented?
Robinson beat ;
McDaniels
Wilson
Jannazzo
Abrams
Wade
All of them beat Cocoa Kid.

Jack Dempsey twice turned down fights with Sam Langford,
Once when Dempsey was still a green novice, and once when Langford was half blind, and well past his sell by date.
Q. Was Jack right to do so in both cases?