Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

[GhostofDempsey]

Now for some FACTS !
After1942 No Murderers Row were ranked in the welterweight division.
In 1941Robinson entered the ratings at no1
1941
1.Robinson
2.Wilson
3 Zivic
5 Burley

1942
1.Robinson
2.Arnstrong
3.Wilson
4. Cocoa Kid
Robinson fought and beat
Wilson
Zivic
Wilson
All ranked above Burley and Cocoa Kid so how,[ especially as Robinson , was not even champion until1946 ,]does that constitute a duck?



After 1950 No Murderers Row were ranked in the middleweight division.
Robinson won the middleweight title in 1951.
You have no answer to this, and hence no argument.

You keep repeating yourself and posting early 1940s data. I'm referring to second half of the decade. I showed you where he ducked Burley. That's the end of the conversation. Now go take a Midol and sip some tea, the day will get better.

[IronDanHamza]

Dropped in a sparring session ! Wow!
Marciano was dropped in a spar by Toxie Hall.
Vitali Klitschko was dropped in sparring by Travis Walker & Raphael Butler.
Sonny Liston by Ray Patterson.
Mike Tyson by Greg Page.

I guess they should all have fought them!
Ask yourself this, Cocoa Kid had been retired for a year
Q What did Ray stand to gain reputation wise from fighting him?
Q How big a financial reward would it have represented?
Robinson beat ;
McDaniels
Wilson
Jannazzo
Abrams
Wade
All of them beat Cocoa Kid.

Jack Dempsey twice turned down fights with Sam Langford,
Once when Dempsey was still a green novice, and once when Langford was half blind, and well past his sell by date.
Q. Was Jack right to do so in both cases?

I don’t understand why you’re being so defensive here?

I didn’t say him dropping him in sparring means anything, as it was after he twice turned the fight down.

But he DID turn it down, twice. Once when he said no, and the second time when he SIGNED to fight him and then didn’t turn up to the arena.

You can dress that up however you want and you can list all the great fighters he fought, yes I’m aware Ray Robinson, the consensus greatest fighter that ever lived fought a lot of great fighters, but none of this changes the fact he turned down that fight twice.

It’s just what happened.

[Ivich]

You keep repeating yourself and posting early 1940s data. I'm referring to second half of the decade. I showed you where he ducked Burley. That's the end of the conversation. Now go take a Midol and sip some tea, the day will get better.

My day is going just fine I had a pre op assessment for a cataract this morning going to have few beers tonight its one of my Grandson's 13th birthday.
The second half of the 40's Robinson was in a different weight class from the Row so how could that ever be a duck?
Explain?

[Ivich]

I don’t understand why you’re being so defensive here?

I didn’t say him dropping him in sparring means anything, as it was after he twice turned the fight down.

But he DID turn it down, twice. Once when he said no, and the second time when he SIGNED to fight him and then didn’t turn up to the arena.

You can dress that up however you want and you can list all the great fighters he fought, yes I’m aware Ray Robinson, the consensus greatest fighter that ever lived fought a lot of great fighters, but none of this changes the fact he turned down that fight twice.

It’s just what happened.

I'm not being defensive but none of you have given any evidence that proves Robinson ducked any of the Row
You have said The Kid dropped Robinson in sparring and I take your word for it ,though you have offered no proof of it.

Robinson had a history of stiffing promoters and demanding more money or he wouldnt leave his dressing room he was a ****.

That doesnt mean he avoided fighters it means there wasnt sufficient financial incentive for him to fight them and honour contracts
Robinson fought Lamotta what 6 times?Conceding lumps of weight to him ,he did so because it was very financially remunerative for him to do it.
Look at the gates they drew and the money they made.
What would he have earned from fighting a washed up Cocoa Kid ? Fighting is a business and let me tell you its no fun being punched in the face!

[GhostofDempsey]

My day is going just fine I had a pre op assessment for a cataract this morning going to have few beers tonight its one of my Grandson's 13th birthday.
The second half of the 40's Robinson was in a different weight class from the Row so how cold that ever be a duck?
Explain?

Burley moved up and down in weight classes. He agreed to fight Burley in '46 but then doubled his asking price. Any fighter who does that today is accused of pricing himself out. Even Robinson's manager admitted they avoided Burley.

[Ivich]

Burley moved up and down in weight classes. He agreed to fight Burley in '46 but then doubled his asking price. Any fighter who does that today is accused of pricing himself out. Even Robinson's manager admitted they avoided Burley.

Burley said the two of them would not have made any money was he lying?

Burley was Box Office poison I believe the biggest crowd he drew was 6000 against Wade for his state middleweight title.
Robinson did not win the welter title until December 46 why would he take on a ranked middleweight who couldnt draw flies?

"The referee declared the fight no contest after one minute of the 10th round because of inactivity." (Associated Press)

The Oakland Tribune noted that it was a dull listless fight, marred by clinching. "It was the consensus of most ringsiders, including yours truly, that Wade was entitled to whatever doubtful honor was attached to receiving the verdict. The suffering spectators would have been satisfied had the referee tossed both middleweights out of the ring."


"According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Burley waited too long to "put on the heat." "If Burley opened up as he did in the last three rounds, and particularly in the tenth when he battered Bivins almost at will, Burley would not have lost the battle." A right uppercut almost dropped Bivins in the final round."


Too many dull ,cautious fights meant Burley was never a draw ,and his only NY fight was in St Nicks not MSG.

Robinson went up and down the weight classes when it was a financially profitable move to do so,not for pea nuts!

Burley and Holman Williams,both ranked men fought in front of 3000 paying customers.

Robinson was drawing better than that in his rookie year!

[GhostofDempsey]

Burley said the two of them would not have made any money was he lying?

Burley was Box Office poison I believe the biggest crowd he drew was 6000 against Wade for his state middleweight title.
Robinson did not win the welter title until December 46 why would he take on a ranked middleweight who couldnt draw flies?

The referee declared the fight no contest after one minute of the 10th round because of inactivity. (Associated Press)

That's not what he said. You're taking his words out of context so you can raise your own hand in victory. Robinson avoided/ducked Burley. That's how the history books see it, and that's a quote from Burley himself. Take your second place trophy and enjoy a pint.

[Ivich]

That's not what he said. You're taking his words out of context so you can raise your own hand in victory. Robinson avoided/ducked Burley. That's how the history books see it, and that's a quote from Burley himself. Take your second place trophy and enjoy a pint.

This is is Burley's quote,want to bet a self imposed life time ban on it?

"Ray ducked me. George Gainford (Ray's manager) admitted that much. But, I can't say I blame him. There wasn't no money in us fighting each other. All we would have done is knock each other off."
Charley Burley.

[GhostofDempsey]

This is is Burley's quote,want to bet a self imposed life time ban on it?

"Ray ducked me. George Gainford (Ray's manager) admitted that much. But, I can't say I blame him. There wasn't no money in us fighting each other. All we would have done is knock each other off."
Charley Burley.

A duck is a duck. Whether it was money or some other reason. Robinson fought a lesser opponent a few fights later for far less than he would have received for Burley.

[Ivich]

A duck is a duck. Whether it was money or some other reason. Robinson fought a lesser opponent a few fights later for far less than he would have received for Burley.

When did he turn down Burley what year what month?
What did he get for the fight with the lesser opponent ?
What would he have gotten for Burley?

Al this suposedly ****.
Could we have some facts please?

I take it that's another bet I've offered that you don't want to take up?