Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

[Ivich]

UM, the first fight was close! No judge from PR. Only USA judges. Hmmm.... I wonder if they were fair. As I said I've never seen the film.

Robinsons waited five more years when Basora was on the decline to fight him again. Any fight Robinson was in would draw. It is laughable that you think he would not draw vs Burley and Moore .. along with the rest of the murders row would not.

So Robinson got the verdict against Jackie Wilson which, according to you was a case of the House Fighter getting an undeserved decision then he ko's Wilson in the rematch for which fight you made no comment.

Basora holds him to a draw in their first fight for which you are now insinuating Basora got a raw deal and Robinson ko's him in 55 seconds, after waiting ,again according to you ,until Basora was on the decline before fighting him again?
You haven't seen any of these fights ,but you know what happened?

You must be rapidly running out of excuses by now!
If you want to point a finger at champions that avoided Murderers Row contenders in their own weight class I've given you them.
Robinson was never one of them!
Robinson fought Basora in May 45 and Aug 50
In between those dates he won the Welterweight title and fought such soft touches as;
Villemain
Walczack
Belloise
Wade
Lamotta
Angott
Bell
Levine
Gavilan x2
Costner
Taylor
Barnes
Docusen
Abrams
Rubio
Hudson x2
Buffalo
Fusari
Wilson
Doyle
Yeah Ray was a real coward.



Want to check how many times PR judges officiated at boxing matches in the US before 1960?
As I said RIDICULOUS!

[Dr. Z]

So Robinson got the verdict against Jackie Wilson which according to you was a case of the House Fighter getting an undeserved decision then he kos Wilson in the rematch for which fight you made no comment.Baxora holds him to a draw in their first fight for which you are now insinuating Basora got a raw deal and Robinson ko's him in 55 seconds, after waiting ,again according to you ,until Basora was on the decline before fighting him again?
You haven't seen any of these fights ,but you know what happened?

You must be rapidly running out of excuses by now!
If you want to point a finger at champions that avoided Murderers Row contenders in their own weight class I've given you them.
Robinson was never one of them!

Want to check how many times PR judges officiated at boxing matches in the US before 1960?
As I said RIDICULOUS!

NO, I am listing facts. The are inconvenient for you. You did not see the fight, neither did you! I suspect its is a " home country " decision against a PR fighter. A foreigner born man. With ALL USA judges knowing full well were their beads is buttered. That could be a big reason a reason for the draw.

But Sugar Ray ducked the black murders row and Archie Moore. Nine men. Fights were discussed and would would be well attended.

[Ivich]

NO, I am listing facts. The are inconvenient for you. You did not see the fight, neither did you! I suspect its is a " home country " decision against a PR fighter. A foreigner born man. With ALL USA judges knowing full well were their beads is buttered. That could be a big reason a reason for the draw.

But Sugar Ray ducked the black murders row and Archie Moore. Nine men. Fights were discussed and would would be well attended.

You say Robinson may have gotten the decision over Wilson because he was the house fighter.
MAY HAVE is not a fact.

You say Robinson could have gotten the draw with Basora in their 1st fight because Basora was a foreigner.

Could Have is not a fact
You say Robinson waited until Basora was past him prime before fighting him again, Yet Robinson was regularly fighting men who were ranked above Basora in the years between their fights.

You say Robinson ducked 9 fights with the Murderers Row?

Here is 5 you can rule out...!

From 1940 Marshall was top ten ranked at Light heavy.

From 1942 Bolden was top ten ranked at Light heavy..

From1943 Booker was top ten ranked at Light heavy.

From1946 Moore was top ten ranked at Light heavy.

From1946 Chase was top ten ranked at Light heavy.

Unless you think Robinson a light weight and welterweight during those years
should have taken top ten ranked light heavies on?
This applies equally to Moore ,that's 6 you can exclude
Basora, Ray fought and ko'd him.

Wade, Ray fought and ko'd him

That leaves you only Burley, who himself said there was no money to be made by them in a match with each other

. In 1941 Robinson broke into the top ten at welterweight.In 1942 Burley and Cocoa Kid both began campaiging at middleweight.

In1945 Burley fought Holman Williams in front of 3000 people,
Burleys biggest purse was just under $3000
He could not draw flies.
You really cannot expect to be taken seriously when you post gobblege**** like the following.

"A foreigner born man. With ALL USA judges knowing full well were their beads is buttered. That could be a big reason a reason for the draw." Why don't you start going to night school?

[GhostofDempsey]

UM, the first fight was close! No judge from PR. Only USA judges. Hmmm.... I wonder if they were fair. As I said I've never seen the film.

Robinsons waited five more years when Basora was on the decline to fight him again. Any fight Robinson was in would draw. It is laughable that you think he would not draw vs Burley and Moore .. along with the rest of the murders row would not.

He used the same excuse for Jack Johnson when Johnson declined to give title shots to Jeannette, Langford, and McVey. He said they wouldn't draw. Despite several lucrative offers to Johnson from several states and countries.

[Ivich]

He used the same excuse for Jack Johnson when Johnson declined to give title shots to Jeannette, Langford, and McVey. He said they wouldn't draw. Despite several lucrative offers to Johnson from several states and countries.

We have it from Burley's own lips that a fight between him and Robinson would not make money.Now you give me dates when Robinson should have fought a member of the Row?

Give an example where Robinson bypassed one of them to fight a lower ranked fighter.

Name which year Robinson should have fought .
Lytell
Wade Ray ko'd him
Basora Ray ko'd him
Booker
Williams
Marshall
Moore
Chase
Burley
Cocoa Kid
Not Could Have But Should Have!

You of all people who deny Dempsey ducked Wills? What a hypocrite!

I'm not gong to do what Z does and bring Johnson into this thread, I'll just say this .
Make a thread in which you produce verified offers of $30,000 giving dates ,promoters and venues that Johnson refused to fight McVey,Jeannette and Langford.and I will gladly debate the subject with you , and anyone else .Z hasnt done it in17 years,let's see what you come up with?

That's my lot on that subject.


Back to the thread.
What you and Z are attempting to do here is turn the very concept of boxing on its head!
You are castigating a man ,one of the greatest fighters of all time, for choosing to fight ranked fighters over unranked ones who were not even in his weight class!

Now crawl back in your hole, your pathetic agenda is so blatantly obvious its almost comic!

[Slugfester]

<Make a thread in which you produce verified offers of $30,000 giving dates ,promoters and venues that Johnson refused to fight McVey,Jeannette and Langford.>

Good suggestion, Ivy, but it may be like telling an anthropologist to, "bring back a live one."

[Ivich]

<Make a thread in which you produce verified offers of $30,000 giving dates ,promoters and venues that Johnson refused to fight McVey,Jeannette and Langford.>

Good suggestion, Ivy, but it may be like telling an anthropologist to, "bring back a live one."

I had considered Ghost a level above Z,[who isn't,] but his stabbing attacks from the sidelines have made me recategorise him as of the same ilk .
His well documented hatred of Johnson has no place in this thread ,and now the ball is placed in his court ,the burden of proof is with him,we will perhaps see the results presently.
ps I liked your analogy!

[Dr. Z]

He used the same excuse for Jack Johnson when Johnson declined to give title shots to Jeannette, Langford, and McVey. He said they wouldn't draw. Despite several lucrative offers to Johnson from several states and countries.

I know. He says he's pig sick.

[Dr. Z]

We have it from Burley's own lips that a fight between him and Robinson would not make money.Now you give me dates when Robinson should have fought a member of the Row?

Give an example where Robinson bypassed one of them to fight a lower ranked fighter.

Name which year Robinson should have fought .
Lytell
Wade Ray ko'd him
Basora Ray ko'd him
Booker
Williams
Marshall
Moore
Chase
Burley
Cocoa Kid

We have many lower raked fighters to choose form! List all the purses of all fighter's he fought, and I can easily name when Robinson should have fought them instead. Your move.

I am two steps away from checkmating you ...again for the fifteenth time.

Or you can avoid the question all together, another way of saying I surrender.

[Ivich]

I know. He says he's pig sick.

Basora had105 fights he went to the US in the early 30's and began his career there his first fight was in Queens NY and he was a resident of NY the rest of his life. He only fought outside the US 10 times ,6 in PR once in Havana and once in Caracas He did not fight in PR until 1945, he was ,to all intents and purposes American and often called Joe on the posters for his fights.Ninety five of his fights were in the US and he fought Robinson inNY where he like Robinson lived.
How often is a judge of the same nationality provided for a visiting boxer,[which Basora was not being domiciled inNY.]for non title fights in the US?

Basora fought in NY 37 times! He was a fans favourite!
Robinson fought in NY 25times!
NB US referees called the decisions when Basora fought those 8 times in PR.
Another " unsubstantiated theory," of yours blown out of the water.
What a cabbage you are!