Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

[Ivich]

Tony " Ivich " Mvcey.

Are you saying that Archie Moore and the black murderers row should not have been ranked from 1940-1950? Outside of a few exceptions? ?

Why can't you answer my questions?

Are you still "pig sick "

I see you are exiting this conversation by inserting different fighters from different eras into this thread.

I'm saying categorically they were NOT ranked at Middleweight when Robinson was ,nor for the most part were they even in the same weight division as Robinson, and as such Robinson had no obligation to fight them !
Where did I imply they should not have been ranked between 1940 and 1950?
MIDDLEWEIGHT
1940
Moore no4
1941 None ranked
1942
Moore no1
Burley no2
Williams no3
Basora no 5
Moore no 10
1943
Williams no 2
Basora no4
Moore no 10
1944
Williams no1
Burley no3
Basora no4
Cocoa Kid no7
Chase no9
1945
Williams no1
Burley no2
Wade no 7
Lytell no8

1946
Burley no2
Lytell no 8

1947
Lytell no2

1948
Lytell no 1

Robinson entered the Middleweight rankings at the end of 1949. None of The Row were ranked in that year or would be ever again at Middleweight.
No.I'm not sick, not sick at all.but I bet you are! lol


The fighters I've mentioned were all members of Murderers Row I just gave some chronological context to their respective careers vis a vis Robinson In fact it was YOU who first mentioned them in your opening post!

See below.
"Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

10-13-2023, 09:44 PM
The murders row. Their talent was undeniable and can be seen. I'm not going to list links to all of their fights. Each man fought at two least hall of fame opponents, in many cases more than that! Most members are inducted in boxing's hall of fame, Decades too late in my opinion.

There were eight fighters that were feared who were middleweights who fought one another during the same era. They were tagged “Black Murderers Row” by writer Budd Schulberg.

There were Charley Burley, Eddie “Black Dynamite” Booker, Jack Chase, Cocoa Kid, Bert Lytell, Lloyd Marshall, Aaron “Tiger” Wade and Holman Williams."

Your title for this thread was" Did Robinson Avoid The Murderers Row?
Or in your case the" Murders Row."

I've proven convincingly that he did not ,I did this by supplying dates and showing that these men were prominent in the previous decade, that they were dropping out of the ratings, and were retiring when Robinson was just getting his career into full flow.
Despite repeated requests from me, for you to supply dates Robinson should, [your word,] have fought these men, you have not replied with a single yearly example,nor will you,
Do you now wish to drop the idea that Robinson avoided 7 of the 8 members of The Row,because chronologically they do not coincide with Robinson's career?
Is that why you now object to my mentioning the very names that you first introduced on this thread?

That would leave you with only Burley.
Burley dropped out of the ratings in1945 and retired in1950.
Robinson did not win the Middleweight title until 1951!

Simply put, you do not have a clue about the subject you chose for your thread.
Donald, you are a plank!

Do not be disabused that I am exiting this thread,I have found it most pleasurable reducing you to the status of the ignorant moron that you are, and I sincerely hope you continue trying to weasel your way out of it!

I hope this runs for another 20 pages!

I look forward to your next post on this ,your thread.

[Dr. Z]

Tony " ivich " McVey,

I have proven that Robinson without a doubt did not take matches with Archie Moore and the black murderers row and he was talking to them. They were better than, say, the overwhelming majority of his opponents. Is called ducking. You can list all of his purses and he would make more vs. Archie Moore and the black murderers row...vs some of them for sure!


The old two blacks would draw is BS! Look at his gates when this happened.

This thread is over, you can spam the board all the mods allow you to, but you can not change history. I will reply if and when that happens.

By the way Robinson would move up in class when he was under say 155 pounds to face a middleweight. Boxing history is littered with fighters that did this and hiding behind that ranking is what you do. For Robinson and his potential opponents. The weight class difference between welterweight and middle weight, especially back then when fighters fought in their weight classes on fight night were not as great as they are today.

END.

[Ivich]

I'm saying categorically they were NOT ranked at Middleweight when Robinson was ,nor for the most part were they even in the same weight division as Robinson, and as such Robinson had no obligation to fight them !
Where did I imply they should not have been ranked between 1940 and 1950?
MIDDLEWEIGHT
1940
Moore no4
1941 None ranked
1942
Moore no1
Burley no2
Williams no3
Basora no 5
Moore no 10
1943
Williams no 2
Basora no4
Moore no 10
1944
Williams no1
Burley no3
Basora no4
Cocoa Kid no7
Chase no9
1945
Williams no1
Burley no2
Wade no 7
Lytell no8

1946
Burley no2
Lytell no 8

1947
Lytell no2

1948
Lytell no 1

Robinson entered the Middleweight rankings at the end of 1949. None of The Row were ranked in that year or would be ever again at Middleweight.
No.I'm not sick, not sick at all.but I bet you are! lol


The fighters I've mentioned were all members of Murderers Row I just gave some chronological context to their respective careers vis a vis Robinson In fact it was YOU who first mentioned them in your opening post!

See below.
"Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

10-13-2023, 09:44 PM
The murders row. Their talent was undeniable and can be seen. I'm not going to list links to all of their fights. Each man fought at two least hall of fame opponents, in many cases more than that! Most members are inducted in boxing's hall of fame, Decades too late in my opinion.

There were eight fighters that were feared who were middleweights who fought one another during the same era. They were tagged “Black Murderers Row” by writer Budd Schulberg.

There were Charley Burley, Eddie “Black Dynamite” Booker, Jack Chase, Cocoa Kid, Bert Lytell, Lloyd Marshall, Aaron “Tiger” Wade and Holman Williams."

Your title for this thread was" Did Robinson Avoid The Murderers Row?
Or in your case the" Murders Row."

I've proven convincingly that he did not ,I did this by supplying dates and showing that these men were prominent in the previous decade, that they were dropping out of the ratings, and were retiring when Robinson was just getting his career into full flow.
Despite repeated requests from me, for you to supply dates Robinson should, [your word,] have fought these men, you have not replied with a single yearly example,nor will you,
Do you now wish to drop the idea that Robinson avoided 7 of the 8 members of The Row,because chronologically they do not coincide with Robinson's career?
Is that why you now object to my mentioning the very names that you first introduced on this thread?

That would leave you with only Burley.
Burley dropped out of the ratings in1945 and retired in1950.
Robinson did not win the Middleweight title until 1951!

Simply put, you do not have a clue about the subject you chose for your thread.
Donald, you are a plank!

Do not be disabused that I am exiting this thread,I have found it most pleasurable reducing you to the status of the ignorant moron that you are, and I sincerely hope you continue trying to weasel your way out of it!

I hope this runs for another 20 pages!

I look forward to your next post on this ,your thread.

In the absence of a reply from you here is another question that you won't answer.
Q.What tangible evidence have you that.the majority of Murderers Row were appreciably better than Robinson's second string of victims?
I'm talking about guys like;
Welters
Jannazzo no6 1940,no 8 1943.

Wilson no2 1941,no3 1942, no 1946.

Bell no 1 1946 m no2 1947,

Docusen no3 1947, no 3 1948.

Zannelli no 4 1947.

Costner no5 1947,no 2 1949.

Angott no8 1945,no91944.

Doyle no2 1945,no7 1946.

Fusari no 8 1948, no 7 1949, no2 1951

Middleweights

Belloise no5 1940, no 6 1941,no 5 1943,no 6 1946,no 4 1947,no 2 1948,no 5 1949.

Villemain no8 1950,no9 1951.

Castellani no5 1952, no1 1953, no7 1954,no5 1955.

Mims,no8 1953,no 3 1954,no6 1955,no6 1958,no10 1959.

Were the majority of Murderers Row better than those I have named?

If you think they were ,why were they not in many cases ranked?


Looking forward to your replies!

[Dr. Z]

In the absence of a reply from you here is another question that you won't answer.
Q.What tangible evidence have you that.the majority of Murderers Row were appreciably better than Robinson's second string of victims?
I'm talking about guys like;
Welters
Jannazzo no6 1940,no 8 1943.

Wilson no2 1941,no3 1942, no 1946.

Bell no 1 1946 m no2 1947,

Docusen no3 1947, no 3 1948.

Zannelli no 4 1947.

Costner no5 1947,no 2 1949.

Angott no8 1945,no91944.

Doyle no2 1945,no7 1946.

Fusari no 8 1948, no 7 1949, no2 1951

Middleweights

Belloise no5 1940, no 6 1941,no 5 1943,no 6 1946,no 4 1947,no 2 1948,no 5 1949.

Villemain no8 1950,no9 1951.

Castellani no5 1952, no1 1953, no7 1954,no5 1955.

Mims,no8 1953,no 3 1954,no6 1955,no6 1958,no10 1959.

Were the majority of Murderers Row better than those I have named?

If you think they were ,why were they not in many cases ranked?


Looking forward to your replies!

You were supposed to get me the all of his fights purses. What happened? For the rest of your post

I'll say this HALL OF Fame fighters which Archie Moore and many or the black Murder's row were tower above a mere ring magazine top ten ranking form a fighter who is not in the Hall of fame. These men were appreciably better! Admit this. Can you do it? Well? I'll be waiting. Looking forward for you reply.















































Idiot! He ducked them.

[Ivich]

You were supposed to get me the all of his fights purses. What happened? For the rest of your post

I'll say this HALL OF Fame fighters which Archie Moore and many or the black Murder's row were tower above a mere ring magazine top ten ranking form a fighter who is not in the Hall of fame. These men were appreciably better! Admit this. Can you do it? Well? I'll be waiting. Looking forward for you reply.















































Idiot! He ducked them.

Why was I supposed to provide ALL Robinson's purses?
I gave you enough of them to show he was making 10 times what he would make versus another black fighters.
NOW ARE YOU.OR ARE YOU NOT, GOING TO PROVIDE DATES WHEN ROBINSON "SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT" THESE MEMBERS OF THE ROW?

ARE YOU,OR ARE YOU NOT GOING TO STATE WHICH FOOTAGE YOU HAVE SEEN OF THESE MEN TO EMPHATICALLY STATE HOW GOOD THEY WERE COMPARED TO ROBINSON'S OPPOSITION?
NB .NO MEMBERS OF THE MURDERERS ROW WERE RANKED IN ANY DIVISION AFTER 1949.

SIMPLE QUESTION WHICH SO FAR DONALD, YOU HAVE DUCKED !
CAN WE NOW HAVE A REPLY?
STOP DUCKING MY QUESTONS!
LET'S HAVE ANSWERS?

DONALD QUACK QUACK!!!!

[Dr. Z]

[QUOTE]
You were supposed to get me the all of his fights purses. What happened? For the rest of your post

I'll say this HALL OF Fame fighters which Archie Moore and many or the black Murder's row were tower above a mere ring magazine top ten ranking form a fighter who is not in the Hall of fame. These men were appreciably better. Admit this. Can you do it? Well? I'll be waiting. Looking forward for you reply. - Dr. Z. [ /QUOTE]


[QUOTE]
Tony ivich Mcvey wrote: I gave you enough of them to show he was making 10 times what he would make versus another black fighters./QUOTE]

LOL, how much did he make vs Randy Turpin?! You are a fool. As usual you gave nothing and won't answer my questions!

Try answering them.

Ta ta.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Dr. Z;n32055084]

[QUOTE]
You were supposed to get me the all of his fights purses. What happened? For the rest of your post

I'll say this HALL OF Fame fighters which Archie Moore and many or the black Murder's row were tower above a mere ring magazine top ten ranking form a fighter who is not in the Hall of fame. These men were appreciably better. Admit this. Can you do it? Well? I'll be waiting. Looking forward for you reply. - Dr. Z. [ /QUOTE]

Tony ivich Mcvey wrote: I gave you enough of them to show he was making 10 times what he would make versus another black fighters./QUOTE]

LOL, how much did he make vs Randy Turpin?! You are a fool. As usual you gave nothing and won't answer my questions!

Try answering them.

Ta ta.

No,YOU challenged ME to produce Robinson's purses, saying I would not do so, I gave you several,enough to prove Robinson was getting considerably more for fighting ranked challengers instead of facing the unranked Row.

Here below is your challenge.

"What did Robison make for each title defense, than ask yourself would he have made more vs. Archie Moore and the black murders row. "

YOU ON THE OTHER HAND HAVE POSTED NOTHING. NOT ONE FIGURE. NOT ONE DATE. NOT ONE GATE.NOT ONE PURSE, TO PROVE YOUR ARGUMENT !!!!!!
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF ROBINSON WOULD DRAW BIG GATES WITH ANY OF THE ROW?
LETS SEE IT?
BURLEY'S BIGGEST EVER CAREER PURSE WAS UNDER $3000.

Robinson was in front after 6rds against Turpin in their 1 st fight but his lack of conditioning after his time in Paris began to tell and Turpin gradually took over
In the rematch 2 months later Robinson was slightly ahead after 9 rds in the 10th a head butt opened a gash over Robinson's eye and Ray began to step up a gear,flooring Turpin before the referee rescued him.

Robinson attempting to regain his title.

A crowd of 61,370 produced a gate of $767,630.

• Movie rights were $200,000 and theater television rights were $25,000.
• Robinson's share was 30% (approximately $230,000) and Turpin's share was 25% (approximately $210,000).
• Robinson opened as a 12-5 betting favorite. The odds were 2-1 the day before the fight.
• Turpin won rounds eight and nine on all three scorecards and opened a bad gash over Robinson's left eye in the tenth.
• Robinson dropped Turpin with a right to the jaw in the tenth. After getting up at the count of nine, Turpin was battered along the ropes until the referee stopped the fight.

I've asked you to give the dates Robinson should have fought the members of Murderers Row?
I've asked you to specify which years these fights should have happened?
I've asked when fights with these named men would have made big money?
I've asked if these men were appreciably better than Robinson's second string victims who were rated in the top ten whilst they were not?
I've asked you specifically which year Robinson should have fought Moore?
You haven't answered any of these questions because,quite frankly you haven't a clue.

I've pointed out that when Robinson was still a welter weight contender

Moore ,Chase Bolden,Booker , were all ranked Light Heayweights'.
I also pointed out that Lytell ,and Burley were ranked middleweights at that time.

If you think that Robinson SHOULD have gone up a division and fought top ten ranked middleweights,that could not draw good purses.That he had a moral obligation to fight them.then it follows you must feel the same about other fighters.
If you think Robinson should have gone up 2 divisions and fought those at Lightheavy THEN---
For example;
Why, when he entered the ratings as a middleweight in1977 didn't Marvin Hagler take on ranked light heavyweights like
Gregory
Saad
Rossman
Conteh
Johnson
Hutchins
Kates
Lopez
Galindez
????????
If you think Robinson should have gone up 2 weight classes to fight those I mentioned,then surely it was encumbent on Hagler to go up 1 class and fight ranked light heavies?

Robinson fought who would give him a good purse.

He fought and beat IzzyJannazzo twice.

Jannazzo beat Cocoa Kid twice, and Holman Williams ,2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought Abrams,Abrams drew with Burley and beat Cocoa Kid,2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat Wilson twice,Wilson beat Coca Kid twice.A member of the Row.

Robinson fought Lamotta 6 times winning 5 of them.Lamotta beat Williams,Basora twice ,and Lytell,
thats 3 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat Zivic twice ,Zivic beat Burley and Booker 2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat, by ko Wade,and Basora that's 2 members of the Row.

In conclusion Robinson not going up in weight and sometimes up 2 divisions to fight men top ten raked in those divisions was not based as you suggested on fear,but on economics,they simply could not bring enough money to the table to make the risk financially acceptable!
As he proved countless times, when the money was right Robinson had no problem taking on bigger,heavier ranked opponents.

What has happened here is you have made thread about a subject on which you are woefully ignorant,your ignorance has been dramatically exposed and you are reduced to silly name calling.

Well I have now christened you Donald,Donald, Z Donald The Ducker Z.
Thank you for providing me with several days of entertaining pleasure exposing you as the intellect challenged muppet that you are!!
Now my Sunday card session at my local pub beckons me!

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32057039][QUOTE=Dr. Z;n32055084]

You were supposed to get me the all of his fights purses. What happened? For the rest of your post

I'll say this HALL OF Fame fighters which Archie Moore and many or the black Murder's row were tower above a mere ring magazine top ten ranking form a fighter who is not in the Hall of fame. These men were appreciably better. Admit this. Can you do it? Well? I'll be waiting. Looking forward for you reply. - Dr. Z. [ /QUOTE]



No,YOU challenged ME to produce Robinson's purses, saying I would not do so, I gave you several,enough to prove Robinson was getting considerably more for fighting ranked challengers instead of facing the unranked Row.

Here below is your challenge.

"What did Robison make for each title defense, than ask yourself would he have made more vs. Archie Moore and the black murders row. "

YOU ON THE OTHER HAND HAVE POSTED NOTHING. NOT ONE FIGURE. NOT ONE DATE. NOT ONE GATE.NOT ONE PURSE, TO PROVE YOUR ARGUMENT !!!!!!
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF ROBINSON WOULD DRAW BIG GATES WITH ANY OF THE ROW?
LETS SEE IT?
BURLEY'S BIGGEST EVER CAREER PURSE WAS UNDER $3000.

Robinson was in front after 6rds against Turpin in their 1 st fight but his lack of conditioning after his time in Paris began to tell and Turpin gradually took over
In the rematch 2 months later Robinson was slightly ahead after 9 rds in the 10th a head butt opened a gash over Robinson's eye and Ray began to step up a gear,flooring Turpin before the referee rescued him.

Robinson attempting to regain his title.

A crowd of 61,370 produced a gate of $767,630.

• Movie rights were $200,000 and theater television rights were $25,000.
• Robinson's share was 30% (approximately $230,000) and Turpin's share was 25% (approximately $210,000).
• Robinson opened as a 12-5 betting favorite. The odds were 2-1 the day before the fight.
• Turpin won rounds eight and nine on all three scorecards and opened a bad gash over Robinson's left eye in the tenth.
• Robinson dropped Turpin with a right to the jaw in the tenth. After getting up at the count of nine, Turpin was battered along the ropes until the referee stopped the fight.

I've asked you to give the dates Robinson should have fought the members of Murderers Row?
I've asked you to specify which years these fights should have happened?
I've asked when fights with these named men would have made big money?
I've asked if these men were appreciably better than Robinson's second string victims who were rated in the top ten whilst they were not?
I've asked you specifically which year Robinson should have fought Moore?
You haven't answered any of these questions because,quite frankly you haven't a clue.

I've pointed out that when Robinson was still a welter weight contender

Moore ,Chase Bolden,Booker , were all ranked Light Heayweights'.
I also pointed out that Lytell ,and Burley were ranked middleweights at that time.

If you think that Robinson SHOULD have gone up a division and fought top ten ranked middleweights,that could not draw good purses.That he had a moral obligation to fight them.then it follows you must feel the same about other fighters.
If you think Robinson should have gone up 2 divisions and fought those at Lightheavy THEN---
For example;
Why, when he entered the ratings as a middleweight in1977 didn't Marvin Hagler take on ranked light heavyweights like
Gregory
Saad
Rossman
Conteh
Johnson
Hutchins
Kates
Lopez
Galindez
????????
If you think Robinson should have gone up 2 weight classes to fight those I mentioned,then surely it was encumbent on Hagler to go up 1 class and fight ranked light heavies?

Robinson fought who would give him a good purse.

He fought and beat IzzyJannazzo twice.

Jannazzo beat Cocoa Kid twice, and Holman Williams ,2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought Abrams,Abrams drew with Burley and beat Cocoa Kid,2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat Wilson twice,Wilson beat Coca Kid twice.A member of the Row.

Robinson fought Lamotta 6 times winning 5 of them.Lamotta beat Williams,Basora twice ,and Lytell,
thats 3 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat Zivic twice ,Zivic beat Burley and Booker 2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat, by ko Wade,and Basora that's 2 members of the Row.

In conclusion Robinson not going up in weight and sometimes up 2 divisions to fight men top ten raked in those divisions was not based as you suggested on fear,but on economics,they simply could not bring enough money to the table to make the risk financially acceptable!
As he proved countless times, when the money was right Robinson had no problem taking on bigger,heavier ranked opponents.

What has happened here is you have made thread about a subject on which you are woefully ignorant,your ignorance has been dramatically exposed and you are reduced to silly name calling.

Well I have now christened you Donald,Donald, Z Donald The Ducker Z.
Thank you for providing me with several days of entertaining pleasure exposing you as the intellect challenged muppet that you are!!
Now my Sunday card session at my local pub beckons me!

Challenger Robinson got $45.500 for fighting champion Olson.
For the rematch now Champion Robinson pulled down $150,000
Name one fight any of The Murderers Row received 20% of that figure?
Robinson got $ 150,000 for his losing defence against Fullmer In the rematch in which Robinson ko' d Fullmer both received $117.500 Did any of The Row ever earn a purse of $17.500 let alone $117,500!

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Ivich;n32057039][QUOTE=Dr. Z;n32055084]

You were supposed to get me the all of his fights purses. What happened? For the rest of your post

I'll say this HALL OF Fame fighters which Archie Moore and many or the black Murder's row were tower above a mere ring magazine top ten ranking form a fighter who is not in the Hall of fame. These men were appreciably better. Admit this. Can you do it? Well? I'll be waiting. Looking forward for you reply. - Dr. Z. [ /QUOTE]



No,YOU challenged ME to produce Robinson's purses, saying I would not do so, I gave you several,enough to prove Robinson was getting considerably more for fighting ranked challengers instead of facing the unranked Row.

Here below is your challenge.

"What did Robison make for each title defense, than ask yourself would he have made more vs. Archie Moore and the black murders row. "

YOU ON THE OTHER HAND HAVE POSTED NOTHING. NOT ONE FIGURE. NOT ONE DATE. NOT ONE GATE.NOT ONE PURSE, TO PROVE YOUR ARGUMENT !!!!!!
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF ROBINSON WOULD DRAW BIG GATES WITH ANY OF THE ROW?
LETS SEE IT?
BURLEY'S BIGGEST EVER CAREER PURSE WAS UNDER $3000.

Robinson was in front after 6rds against Turpin in their 1 st fight but his lack of conditioning after his time in Paris began to tell and Turpin gradually took over
In the rematch 2 months later Robinson was slightly ahead after 9 rds in the 10th a head butt opened a gash over Robinson's eye and Ray began to step up a gear,flooring Turpin before the referee rescued him.

Robinson attempting to regain his title.

A crowd of 61,370 produced a gate of $767,630.

• Movie rights were $200,000 and theater television rights were $25,000.
• Robinson's share was 30% (approximately $230,000) and Turpin's share was 25% (approximately $210,000).
• Robinson opened as a 12-5 betting favorite. The odds were 2-1 the day before the fight.
• Turpin won rounds eight and nine on all three scorecards and opened a bad gash over Robinson's left eye in the tenth.
• Robinson dropped Turpin with a right to the jaw in the tenth. After getting up at the count of nine, Turpin was battered along the ropes until the referee stopped the fight.

I've asked you to give the dates Robinson should have fought the members of Murderers Row?
I've asked you to specify which years these fights should have happened?
I've asked when fights with these named men would have made big money?
I've asked if these men were appreciably better than Robinson's second string victims who were rated in the top ten whilst they were not?
I've asked you specifically which year Robinson should have fought Moore?
You haven't answered any of these questions because,quite frankly you haven't a clue.

I've pointed out that when Robinson was still a welter weight contender

Moore ,Chase Bolden,Booker , were all ranked Light Heayweights'.
I also pointed out that Lytell ,and Burley were ranked middleweights at that time.

If you think that Robinson SHOULD have gone up a division and fought top ten ranked middleweights,that could not draw good purses.That he had a moral obligation to fight them.then it follows you must feel the same about other fighters.
If you think Robinson should have gone up 2 divisions and fought those at Lightheavy THEN---
For example;
Why, when he entered the ratings as a middleweight in1977 didn't Marvin Hagler take on ranked light heavyweights like
Gregory
Saad
Rossman
Conteh
Johnson
Hutchins
Kates
Lopez
Galindez
????????
If you think Robinson should have gone up 2 weight classes to fight those I mentioned,then surely it was encumbent on Hagler to go up 1 class and fight ranked light heavies?

Robinson fought who would give him a good purse.

He fought and beat IzzyJannazzo twice.

Jannazzo beat Cocoa Kid twice, and Holman Williams ,2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought Abrams,Abrams drew with Burley and beat Cocoa Kid,2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat Wilson twice,Wilson beat Coca Kid twice.A member of the Row.

Robinson fought Lamotta 6 times winning 5 of them.Lamotta beat Williams,Basora twice ,and Lytell,
thats 3 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat Zivic twice ,Zivic beat Burley and Booker 2 members of the Row.

Robinson fought and beat, by ko Wade,and Basora that's 2 members of the Row.

In conclusion Robinson not going up in weight and sometimes up 2 divisions to fight men top ten raked in those divisions was not based as you suggested on fear,but on economics,they simply could not bring enough money to the table to make the risk financially acceptable!
As he proved countless times, when the money was right Robinson had no problem taking on bigger,heavier ranked opponents.

What has happened here is you have made thread about a subject on which you are woefully ignorant,your ignorance has been dramatically exposed and you are reduced to silly name calling.

Well I have now christened you Donald,Donald, Z Donald The Ducker Z.
Thank you for providing me with several days of entertaining pleasure exposing you as the intellect challenged muppet that you are!!
Now my Sunday card session at my local pub beckons me!

Donald, if you find the courage to respond to my questions,don't forget to factor in that after his his 1952 fight with Light heavyweight Champ Maxim, Robinson retired until the 6th of Jan 1955.
A FACT YOU NEED TO TAKE NOTE OF . ALL THE MURDERERS ROW WERE GONE AFTER 1951
FIVE OF THEM WERE RETIRED BY THE END OF 1948 !
THOSE THAT RETIRED LAST, LYTELL AND MARSHALL HUNG UP THEIR GLOVES IN 1951

[Slugfester]

Ray fought Tiger Wade in1952, knocking him out in 3 rds.
Of The MURDERERS Row.Using the Rings end of year ratings , the only ones ranked when Robinson was were;

Welter
1941
Robinson no1
Burley no5
Williams no 6
Cocoa Kid no 7
That year Robinson fought and beat the number 2 contender Zivic


1942
Robinson no1

Cocoa Kid no 4
Cocoa Kid began campaigning as a middleweight in1942 As did Burley.

That year Robinson fought and beat the number 2 contender Angott ,and the number 3 contender Zivic

Middle ;
1952 Artie Towne no 5

That year Robinson fought and beat Olson no 3, Graziano no 10.

1955 Artie Towne no 10.
That year Robinson fought and lost to Jones,and fought and beat Castellani no 5 ,and Olson no1.

None of the Murderers Row were ranked when Turpin was.

I have changed my opinion mainly due to you. I now do not believe Robinson ducked murderer's row fighters. You make a good case.