Tunney Versus jack Johnson who wins and why

[Willie Pep 229]

The Floyd fight was the one that had Dempsey threatening to walk out of the agreement to face Wills over because they agreed to not fight anyone in that between time, but Wills already had an agreement to fight in New Jersey. Apparently when they were looking for a dance partner, he was willing to face Tunney, at least according to this clipping, but Tunney (or his management) declined. Dempsey then allowed this fight to go forward and I think he even attended....if my memory serves correctly. Ep3rQ6.png

Yea I think we are on the same page for once. Lol

Be interesting to find out how they (Newark promoters) got their claws into Wills so that he had to accept an 'armory' fight when Wills-Tunney could have filled a stadium.

I always say you got to look at Tammany - the Gibson NYT article suggests that Wills was legally bond to Newark, Gibson was calling that false. But I could see where Tammany/Farley expected their/his piece of the pie, and had Wills legally bound up. At that moment the NYSAC and Rickard weren't playing nice.

The NYSAC wanted the Dempsey-Wills fight bad enough that they tried to block any attempt for Rickard to stage the Dempsey-Tunney in the Polo Grounds.

It's conjecture on my part but I am willing to bet they were squeezing out Tunney as well, so as to punish Rickard and try to force Rickard's hand regarding Dempsey-Wills. Maybe!

So in short: Wills was never in a position to accept Gibson's challenge because he was bound to the Newark armory, a venue too small for a Tunney fight, with Tunney then in return refusing the Wills fight (in Newark).

You can paint both guys as ducking if one wants to - but I think that only scratches the surface of what Farley-Mullins-Gibson-Rickard were really playing at.

It is amazing but the old adage is so true, nothing really changes but the date. Imagine 100 years from now trying to unravel the Fury-Hearn-Josuha saga just from what is available in the media? So many things are said behind closed doors that never surface - every line spoken to the media is tactical and seldom totally honest.

[Dr. Z]

I thought you were talking about Wills vs. Dempsey. I might be getting confused with all of the threads because I could have sworn in one of them you were saying Wills ducked out of a Dempsey fight.

I know that Tunney was offered a fight with Wills also and Tunney's side declined. Said that the armory where it was to be held wouldn't be good enough, or something to that effect.


Your opinion on who wins doesn't really interest me to be honest. We'd have to see it to know for sure.

Yes. You are confused. I never said Wills ducked out of a Dempsey fight.

[travestyny]

Yea I think we are on the same page for once. Lol

Be interesting to find out how they (Newark promoters) got their claws into Wills so that he had to accept an 'armory' fight when Wills-Tunney could have filled a stadium.

I always say you got to look at Tammany - the Gibson NYT article suggests that Wills was legally bond to Newark, Gibson was calling that false. But I could see where Tammany/Farley expected their/his piece of the pie, and had Wills legally bound up. At that moment the NYSAC and Rickard weren't playing nice.

The NYSAC wanted the Dempsey-Wills fight bad enough that they tried to block any attempt for Rickard to stage the Dempsey-Tunney in the Polo Grounds.

It's conjecture on my part but I am willing to bet they were squeezing out Tunney as well, so as to punish Rickard and try to force Rickard's hand regarding Dempsey-Wills. Maybe!

So in short: Wills was never in a position to accept Gibson's challenge because he was bound to the Newark armory, a venue too small for a Tunney fight, with Tunney then in return refusing the Wills fight (in Newark).

You can paint both guys as ducking if one wants to - but I think that only scratches the surface of what Farley-Mullins-Gibson-Rickard were really playing at.

It is amazing but the old adage is so true, nothing really changes but the date. Imagine 100 years from now trying to unravel the Fury-Hearn-Josuha saga just from what is available in the media? So many things are said behind closed doors that never surface - every line spoken to the media is tactical and seldom totally honest.

I wouldn't paint either of these guys as ducking the other, just for the record.

[travestyny]

Yes. You are confused. I never said Wills ducked out of Dempsey fight.

I was confusing you with Queenie....for a good reason. lol.

[QueensburyRules]

I was confusing you with Queenie....for a good reason. lol.

- - Tu confuso, Ay Chihuahau!

We know JJ has a poor record against prime contenders not to mention having barely fought any.

[Dr. Z]

I was confusing you with Queenie....for a good reason. lol.

Sure you were. His opinions are not mine. Your just plain confused. Bump the question in your bogus CRT theory thread, I have reply of you.

[Larry the boss]

Johnson outboxes and stops him

[billeau2]

Johnson outboxes and stops him

Come on now Larry... Give us a few scenarios, reasons... Picking either of these guys to "outbox" the other makes a lot of sense, I just expect a little more analysis from you, being that I know you share a lot of great technical info on the boards. How does Johnson make it happen?

[Larry the boss]

Come on now Larry... Give us a few scenarios, reasons... Picking either of these guys to "outbox" the other makes a lot of sense, I just expect a little more analysis from you, being that I know you share a lot of great technical info on the boards. How does Johnson make it happen?

his size, and movement, he has very good defense and can be brutal when he wants. I just feel he had more tools in the tool box and was the bigger stonger guy..but it also depends on when they fought

[billeau2]

his size, and movement, he has very good defense and can be brutal when he wants. I just feel he had more tools in the tool box and was the bigger stonger guy..but it also depends on when they fought

Johnson was known to be very physically strong... Apparently his dad was not big, but very well built and I read somewhere that his dad taught him how to take care of his physical health. Johnson did have a bit of a brutal streak lol...

I think both guys were ahead of their time... Tunney knew how to use elements of both systems of fighting, classical and preclassical... and Johnson developed proficiency with a jab when the lead was still the front hand punch, Johnson had incredible parries, and probably had faster feet than Tunney... though this last one is close.