Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[billeau2]

Certainly he deserved a shot more so earlier on in Dempseys reign. Wills/Wills management stopped taking chances later on and instead was keen to keep his top contender “ranking”. The reason Wills never received a shot was due to the specter of Johnson Jeffries and the idea in general handed down for decades to never give a black man an opportunity to be crowned the physical superior of all men. The powers that be during that time did everything they could to prevent such a bout. It took Louis in 1937 some 15 years later to bridge that gap.

I do think we have to look at this attitude prevelant at the time. It was a sentiment that existed and had gravitas concerning the organizers of things like boxing matches.

[Willie Pep 229]

Certainly he deserved a shot more so earlier on in Dempseys reign. Wills/Wills management stopped taking chances later on and instead was keen to keep his top contender “ranking”. The reason Wills never received a shot was due to the specter of Johnson Jeffries and the idea in general handed down for decades to never give a black man an opportunity to be crowned the physical superior of all men. The powers that be during that time did everything they could to prevent such a bout. It took Louis in 1937 some 15 years later to bridge that gap.

Johnson's reign as HW Champion, regardless as to who's fault it was, damaged the careers of an entire generation of Black HWs.

It was Louis who taught White America to accept the prowess of a Black athlete.

Too bad JJ didn't fight, and lose his title to, Jeannette or Langford either man would have served the Black community with distinction and not deepened the color line.

Had Jeannette or Langford replaced Johnson before Willard, Wills probably gets a shot at the title. It would be a different 1920s, boxing wise.

[billeau2]

What does this matter? Does that mean WIlls didn't deserve a shot at the title?

There is a real touch of irony in all these decisions people make based on convention. Wills was by all accounts a real smart, good person. He also was succesful! He managed to acquire property in Harlem, had a wife that stood by him, etc. Many of these "defenders of the White Civilized race and the mandate it set" lol, would probably not have begrudged Wills anything. Many of these guys were seriously deluded and thought about the character of a person who would wear such honors was important... and some of them thought this was related to things like race, the shape of one's head, etc.

That is what makes me sad BUT Wills being the real G he was made it big! That makes me feel good. Not to mention that he was born and raised up in one of my favorite cities, Nah Orleans!!!!

[QueensburyRules]

- - To answer the OP properly, the reason many think JJ great is because Nat put him as #1 in the first ever all time heavyweight boxing ranking, and Nat's word was the Word Of God.

[JAB5239]

- - To answer the OP properly, the reason many think JJ great is because Nat put him as #1 in the first ever all time heavyweight boxing ranking, and Nat's word was the Word Of God.

I think it's more the duress he was under becoming the first black heavyweight champion and maintaining that lofty status as long has he did under less than favorable conditions. That he crushed Jeffries in the first fight of the century to stomp out the illusion of white superiority surely plays a part as well. And let's not forget his dominance at that time. In spite of the black fighters he refused after winning the title Johnson was dominant during his reign.

[travestyny]

Certainly he deserved a shot more so earlier on in Dempseys reign. Wills/Wills management stopped taking chances later on and instead was keen to keep his top contender “ranking”. The reason Wills never received a shot was due to the specter of Johnson Jeffries and the idea in general handed down for decades to never give a black man an opportunity to be crowned the physical superior of all men. The powers that be during that time did everything they could to prevent such a bout. It took Louis in 1937 some 15 years later to bridge that gap.

So what you're saying is that if Dempsey pushed for this fight, it would have been impossible. That's what you believe?



How is that even possible when the public, the promoters, and commissioners all wanted it? Who are these powers that be that didn't want it?

[travestyny]

And for the record, Jack Johnson didn't have a damn thing to do with Wills not getting his shot. Jack Johnson was only guilty of living his life. Anyone trying to blame him for Dempsey's blatant duck of Wills should be ashamed of themselves.


It's always someone else's fault but Dempsey. Unbelievable

[Willie Pep 229]

It is true Johnson was free to live his life as he saw fit. And he chose to live it in a boorish manner. He fed the hate machine and damaged his own people.

If Jeannette has been champion in 1915 and not Johnson - it would have been Dempsey looking for a shot at Jeannette in 1919. Certainly Wills would have been in the mix.

[QueensburyRules]

And for the record, Jack Johnson didn't have a damn thing to do with Wills not getting his shot. Jack Johnson was only guilty of living his life. Anyone trying to blame him for Dempsey's blatant duck of Wills should be ashamed of themselves.


It's always someone else's fault but Dempsey. Unbelievable

- - It be only weensy blaming Dempsey.

Like I stated, early on we had one of the wealthier NY Icons and Broadway Producers wanting to promote Dempsey/Wills first in Fenway Park, Boston, and the next year in Yankee Stadium, NY. He had the $$$ and had the venue for huge crowds, but the city leaders shot the fights down.

Anything after that point in time is just the cherry atop whipped cream of why the fight couldn't happen.

[travestyny]

- - It be only weensy blaming Dempsey.

Like I stated, early on we had one of the wealthier NY Icons and Broadway Producers wanting to promote Dempsey/Wills first in Fenway Park, Boston, and the next year in Yankee Stadium, NY. He had the $$$ and had the venue for huge crowds, but the city leaders shot the fights down.

Anything after that point in time is just the cherry atop whipped cream of why the fight couldn't happen.

Who shot the fight down in NY, Montreal, and Chicago, dumbo?