Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[Ivich]

Yes because it was Johnson. That's the point I am making. If he had fought Jeannette in Paris and lost things would have worked out different in America.

New York would have embraced Jeannette as they did Wills.

Why fight Jeannette over 30rds in Paris for $10,000 when you can get $31,500 for fighting Jim Flynn in the US? The money was in defending against White Hopes where the was a possibility of the title coming back to White America, not in two blacks fighting for the title in a match that would only retain the status quo ,easy fights for more money Do you think Jeannette of Langford would have acted any different than Johnson did had they been in his shoes?The colour bar was firmly in place long before Johnson came on the scene. Godfrey, Jackson Childs ,Martin, McVey were just a few denied deserved shots at the white champions ,

[Ivich]

What about with McKetrick (sp) in Paris? Was that taken from him or did he just duck Jeannette?

(Insert ****** laughing face here.)

Sorry ,can you be more specific ?

[Ivich]

Funny how we today praise Jackie Robinson for recognizing his position in the Bkack community and history and ow he disciplined himself accordingly to get the job done. For that we today praise him . . . Johnson on the other hand acted in as boorish a manner a man can act and you all give him a free ride.

Jack Johnson caused the color line to deepen, gave amunition to the haters, and set back black fighters for a generation.

Robinson had a quick temper and punched out an Officer when he was in the Army, Joe Louis and Truman Gibson had to intervene on his behalf.
Johnson operated on the principle that a man is free to choose his own mate,and made a famous statement to that effect.
Because he wouldn't play the ,"yassuh Boss," game that Langford did, he was hated.Jeannette was part white and his wife was white but he never made any controversial statements and invariably publicly rooted for white fighters to beat Johnson,both he and Langford fullsomely sang the praises of Jeffries declaring he would murder Johnson.So much for black solidarity?

[JAB5239]

Robinson had a quick temper and punched out an Officer when he was in the Army, Joe Louis and Truman Gibson had to intervene on his behalf.
Johnson operated on the principle that a man is free to choose his own mate,and made a famous statement to that effect.
Because he wouldn't play the ,"yassuh Boss," game that Langford did, he was hated.Jeannette was part white and his wife was white but he never made any controversial statements and invariably publicly rooted for white fighters to beat Johnson,both he and Langford fullsomely sang the praises of Jeffries declaring he would murder Johnson.So much for black solidarity?

Would Johnson have been hated for the way he acted if he was white? I agree he set black heavyweights back, but it was only for acting like a free man in which he was. John L. Sullivan acted boorish during his career and wouldn't fight Peter Jackson. No one holds that against him. I get times were different, but the fact is Johnson was a free man to do as he pleased, it was only held against him because of his color. I do believe he flaunted and antagonized white society by doing so intentionally, but was it not his right?

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson signed to defend against Jeannette in NY twice,and against McVey and Langford in Australia,The fights were pulled because of the NYAC and Australian public opinion.This is all easily verified.

The contracts weren't worth the paper they were printed on. Johnson knew this, and he even moved the goal posts in make sure they didn't happen. Especially the Australia fights.

[GhostofDempsey]

Yes because it was Johnson. That's the point I am making. If he had fought Jeannette in Paris and lost things would have worked out different in America.

New York would have embraced Jeannette as they did Wills.

They give a pass to Johnson for fighting Jim Johnson in Paris for just $1,000. This is after he insisted his purse demand was $30K, he wouldn't even fight Jeannette the year prior for an offer if $20K, but ole Battling Jim somehow got the title shot...that only could have been won if he KO'd Johnson. By accepting the Battling Jim fight for far less than $5K, he immediately exposed himself for ducking the other top 3 black fighters of that era.

[GhostofDempsey]

Robinson had a quick temper and punched out an Officer when he was in the Army, Joe Louis and Truman Gibson had to intervene on his behalf.
Johnson operated on the principle that a man is free to choose his own mate,and made a famous statement to that effect.
Because he wouldn't play the ,"yassuh Boss," game that Langford did, he was hated.Jeannette was part white and his wife was white but he never made any controversial statements and invariably publicly rooted for white fighters to beat Johnson,both he and Langford fullsomely sang the praises of Jeffries declaring he would murder Johnson.So much for black solidarity?

Langford was not an Uncle Tom playing the yassuh boss game. Just because he was a class act and man of scruples doesn't make him a "coon".

[travestyny]

No I don't think I could. Other fighters were not put under the same spotlight - but then again Louis and Jackie Robinson found themselves under the same level of scrutiny, but unlike Johnson they measured up to the challenge, Johnson didn't. Such a shame the opportunity was missed and black fighters had to wait two decades for a better man (Joe Louis) to come along and fix the damage done.

Measured up to the challenge how? Because Joe Louis dated white women in secret, or because they had Black wives?

[travestyny]

What about with McKetrick (sp) in Paris? Was that taken from him or did he just duck Jeannette?

(Insert ****** laughing face here.)

McKetrick in Paris? No idea what you are talking about but feel free to share.


He agreed to fight Jeannette in New York. Dempsey did the opposite. Right?

[travestyny]

They give a pass to Johnson for fighting Jim Johnson in Paris for just $1,000. This is after he insisted his purse demand was $30K, he wouldn't even fight Jeannette the year prior for an offer if $20K, but ole Battling Jim somehow got the title shot...that only could have been won if he KO'd Johnson. By accepting the Battling Jim fight for far less than $5K, he immediately exposed himself for ducking the other top 3 black fighters of that era.

Well then certainly you believe Dempsey ducked Wills since the contract he ducked out on was more lucrative than the Tunney contract, right?