Gamboa equals Rigo, they both jump up 2 weight classes, but Loma completely outclassed Rigo. I would take Burns out and place Benavidez there, even though he wasn't at his full capacity because of his knee.
IMO Loma's wins still look better than Crawford's but not for a long shot.
De la hoya spar Chávez Once, and he did kind of ok, but nobody could imagine he would beat the crap out of Chavez with how the sparring went, he Was kind of young though.
Jose Luis Castillo was Chavez sparring partner for a few years.
Porter was Cotto’s sparring in the beginning of his career, welterweight has always been a stacked division, Spence and Crawford are 1 and 2 either way, but I don’t think Thurman, PAC and porter are that far behind.... even Jose Benavidez in a good night can give anybody fits.
So , your standards maybe are really high or you are really biased with your favorite boxers/style .
For all the talk Andrade and Charlo did before their fights, they don't deserve a shot at canelo, they didnt take risks at all, specially Andrade... Then after fight is over guy start talking like he gave a great show :cool2:
If Canelo is giving out of prime GGG fits, I'm pretty sure Canelo can take everything Kovalev has to give, and he'll roll the hardest punches ala Andre Ward... Impossible for Canelo to lose a decision against Kov, he just doesnt need to get KOed...
The other Bivol and the other guy, that's a different case, Canelo needs strategies from scratch to beat those guys, He simply is not willing to do it, and the low compensation for the high risks... Your regular mexican granpa boxing fan doesnt know those guys.
Loma's performance in Salido's fight was very good, it was a really difficult fight, but Salido should've been deducted at least 2 points... I love how our mexican fighters go to war, even Marquez is a really clean counter-puncher in his aggressiveness, but you guys can't deny Loma was closing the fight a lot better than Salido even with those low blows.
This fight is defined by people perceptions, it truly is. It was a masterclass from both of them and it end up being pretty boring, for Manny casuals and hardcore fans alike; but the reason was perceptions, Floyd executed what everyone expected, while Pacquiao in the other hand, was forced into the chess match.
I really think that if you ask a casual in the next 20-40 years, and ask him to judge the fight it will be a 6-6 BORING fight for them.
PERCEPTION and EXPECTATION won the fight to Floyd.
I just woke up and was reading my news feed, saw Crawford name pop up... and I just feel like it's such a shame of a career... Him and Mikey Garcia, I understand Rigondeaux and Loma having issues closing deals for big fights, they bring no fans at all, but Crawford and Garcia shouldn't have any issues at all; such a waste of talent... Would somebody care if Crawford retires undefeated with the career he's having?
Hoya weighed 145 TWO WEEKS before the fight
just... to be sure... to be sure... to be sure... :lol1:
of course, the guy was running on booze and coke, probaly one pound was the dildo shoved in his a.ss.
the weight killed him
The weight was a consequence of not putting everything on his camp, he undeniably underestimated pacman; all the signs were there and Valero gave them away, maybe people didn't believe, but bet you pac camp was happy with the rumors.
He probably party so hard that had no muscles or stamina to last the 12 rounds and had to lose the weight the last couple of days with the body not recovering. You can't blame dehydration just for the last day, it was a sequence of bad choices.
I guess he didn't stop partying, doing coke, being a dragq; nothing wrong with anything of that, what's wrong is that the guy was supposed to be training not being a stupid college frat boy.
If he doesn't, he should... Castillo I and Maidana I were close, even if he paid the judges it's not his fault that latin fighters doesn't work as hard for rematches, they go in there with a loser mentality already. That's Mayweather main attribute: to be on top of his game at all times.
My answer would be... Is Maidana a better overall fighter than Canelo? I mean, Maidana put pressure like nobody else on Mayweather (including Jose Luis Castillo). I'm just messing around with my answer, with tactical boxers like Canelo and Mayweather, I guess the secret is to not let them THINK about the next move, you have 2 choices, to make them THINK or to make them REACT; They're great at both, but it's better to make them REACT (GUESS).
Golovkin as good as he is, thinks about his move too, and at his age, he won't be changing his game at all. Maydana and Margarito had great success because of BALLS and they perfectly knew their limitations going in.
Remember Canelo - Mayweather? Canelo was still trying to outbox Mayweather on the 12th round! What a freckle jackass!
Canelo 28 or 29 correct? If he fought a 29yr old Floyd at a neutral weight he probably would get stopped. The Floyd that fought Gatti would destroy Canelo. That win over Canelo was superb.
It's just a shame that Mayweather changed his approach to boxing after that fight... Probably Gatti broke Mayweather's hands with his face and he had to take better care of them after that.
DLS f*up pretty bady, he had good trainer and good sparring for the pacquiao fight, but everybody was saying he was a bully for taking it, probably it got to his head and thought it was going to be an easy W.
Edwin Valero (who was DLH sparring partner for that fight) let spanish media know when DLH fired him from camp, that DLH was in no condition to fight and that he got fired for bringing too much heat to sparring sessions.
Basically it was Rocky III for DLH, too much fame, too good, and also with too much parties.
Ortiz was really good boxer with a lot of skills, but success came when he was young and with the wrong corner they don't stress enough for your mind to accept that you need to keep excellence at all times. He's too stubborn for his own good and probably thought he was better than he was at the time, he could have been great but stubbornness got on the way.
If you see Lomachenko, Mayweather, Fury and heck, maybe even Teofimo Lopez, their fathers are in their corner and they make sure that they keep excellence at all times.
I'm not saying that you have too keep your father in your corner to be careful, but it's just harder for outsiders to make you change if you are "that" stubborn.
I liked Cotto-Margarito II buildup, Cotto seem like he wanted to tore Margarito's head off in the interviews, and Margarito as a real villain on this one. I was just disappointed that they didn't let the fight continue more, Margarito's eye was already ****ed up. What was the purpose of authorizing the fight if everybody knew Cotto will target the eye; either Margarito's face badly disfigured or Cotto fading in the last 2 rounds, any other ending was a money grab and that's what we got.
Pac win definitely, Thurman didnt look that good against Josesito, but Kovalev's weaknesses, what everybody was talking about is exactly what Canelo exploited... Everybody saw it coming and even then Kovalev didnt ajust properly...
The more I think about it and taking everything into account the less impressive it looks. I guess now everybody can see that the urban myth that GGG knocked out Kovalev in sparring probably was true.
The thing with your argument is GGG shouldn’t even be on the list at all! I get that you believe GGG is equal or better than Canelo and that “may” be true but only @160 not at P4P! Not ever at P4P because GGG has never had the qualities of a P4P fighter. Next
Well it was just part of the argument, but if you follow what I'm trying to say and you want to take GGG off the list, that's perfect! just take Canelo off too and you now have 2 slots open for p4p list, they're that close! To me Shawn Porter isn't even close to be p4p Material and Mikey is a good boxer at his weight but hasn't done anything on the last year, so we can take Mikey off the list and probably Spence too FFS. You see if we're not hypocrites and follow our own rules it gets a lot easier to compose the top 10 p4p list.
Don't get too tangled with Canelo and GGG, it was just an example to try to make room for Artur and also answer the question on the OP. Beterbiev definitely deserves to be on the list.
a P4P list, is about people's perception, so anyone could be on the list. Saying that, Canelo shouldn't really be higher than GGG, their fights were close and on most scorecards he even lost, maybe Canelo and GGG could be closer to the 7-8th place and Beterbiev be closer to the 5th. Take Mikey off the list or anyone that hasn't done anything worth it on at least a year. A top 10 p4p list should be like a living animal, always changing.
1.Loma
2.Crawford
3.Canelo
4.Inoue
5.Usyk 5. Beterbiev
6.Spence
7.GGG
8.Estrada
9.Mikey
10.Pac
I remember not the actual fight but the family gathering for Chavez - Taylor I, that fight made him a superstar, everybody was talking about Chavez in Sinaloa after that....
Actual fight I remember Chávez vs Camacho. I was probably around 10 years old and I didn’t understand why Camacho ran so much. Boxing fights in Mexico are not like the American way, and I would say that in the whole world just in America judges give so much credit at running and holding. No point deductions, nothing
I don't get it why some people says the first fight was a fluke. The fight wasn't a fluke, it was just a different fight.
- AJ decided to engage more (he was more brave or more stupid whatever you decide).
- Ruiz was lighter on his feet
- Referee allowed for more rough tactics from Ruiz, referees sometimes decide what kind of fight we will get (e.g. Floyd - Maidana II wasn't as "street" as the first one)
I have more respect for his game now, he showed people that he could make some changes in abort amount of time.
Besides that, he easily won 9 rounds, and I mean 9 clear rounds with no way to give them to Ruiz, and probably 3 really close rounds that you could give to anyone. To me that's impressive in it's own.
Andrade style is awful... Does he have any real fans? I mean, the guy seem athletic, but people is burning Joshua for fighting like that for one fight while Andrade has been doing it his whole career.... If Charlo fights Canelo, that's ok, at this point I'm more interested in watching Canelo fight Benavidez, Beterbiev or even Callum Smith, but Charlo is ok... Andrade in the other hand, that will be like chasing a spider monkey, it's not even about skills, the fight will be boring and you know the judges won't favor Andrade's style at all. Do it bare knuckle and maybe it gets interesting.
every Canelo - GGG round on both fights was close, nor GGG or canelo impose the style to the other in any of their fights.
Ruiz - Joshua II was not like that, it had 9 wide rounds for Joshua and 3 close rounds to score, that we could give them to Ruiz as consolation prize.
I don't want to see a third Ruiz - Joshua fight unless the fight is in America where maybe Ruiz can have more leverage in negotiations.
Referee was too harsh on Ruiz style in the rematch for the shorter guy to have any success, it remind me (not as bad though) to some Klitschko fights when they impose clinching on the shorter fighters and they never got any warning.
Nice alt, but what kind of rationale is that, they have more money let them dope and potentially harm one another haha what on earth.
at least you will give them an even field! I'm not alt bro...
As the things are right now, people with money pay judges, takes the best drugs, they cover up the doping, they pay usada and wada or get exclusions or whatever, they decide ring size and venues. People with money still get the drugs, don't lie yourself about it.
Nice alt, but what kind of rationale is that, they have more money let them dope and potentially harm one another haha what on earth.
at least you will give them an even field! I'm not alt bro...
As the things are right now, people with money pay judges, takes the best drugs, they cover up the doping, they pay usada and wada or get exclusions or whatever, they decide ring size and venues. People with money still get the drugs, don't lie yourself about it.
maybe it was just a Rhynoplasty to help with the breathing, and that way they could use some "legal" drugs to help with conditioning. I wouldnt doubt it, and I wouldnt think it would change the outcome of the fight at all, Ruiz was slow as *****. Joshua could have gave away the last 3 rounds the way Oscar did to Tito and still have won clearly.
The way I see it, top athletes should be able to use whatever drugs they want to use, they got paid millions and we don't. We just want to see the best perform their best against the best. Marihuana, coke??? come on, probably they worsen the fighters performance, let them use whatever they want the way Baseball players did on the 90s.
Reducing muscle mass
yeah, this! he lost 10 pounds that doesnt seem like a lot, but it was probably 10 pounds completely of muscle, that were just stealing oxygen when he wasn't using all that power and he was burning it trying to move around. It was 2 different fights and all and all. It was a great show of effort from Joshua, we have to recognize that. He even said that was talking to Wladimir for advice, while Ruiz was burning his cash and talking to Wilder as buddies making future plans.
There are a lot of factors on every fight, but congrats to Joshua for his dedication to the sport, that's the main reason why mayweather beat so easily to maidana and Castillo in the rematches; latinos party too hard!
I remember watching it from round 7 and on, and just gave Canelo one of the rounds, I think 11 or 12, all the other rounds he seem gassed, it seem like he was conserving energy and look really tired, but the round that he won was a pretty convincing round, a lot clearer than the ones that GGG edge him out. GGG fan here, I dont get it how boxing fans cant give most of the 2nd half of the fight to GGG watching from TV but understand judges perspective on swing rounds...
Rung is better than anyone on Canelo's resume, including GGG. How dominant did Canelo look in the GGG fights? Exactly.
Not even close.
thissss
Canelo always fights like he know he is winning in 2 score cards, he has no hurry at all to seem impressive... ginger double standards