So, I guess the real issue is: they were taller, but not tall enough?
Which is why Mayweather was able to use his superior height and reach to beat them!
Conclusion: His resume is overrated.
Though, now I'm wondering why people are so excited about this Pacquiao fight...
I've seen a decent amount of sparring in gyms and fighters never sit down, he's just more comfortable standing.
^^^
This. I was just about to say that, no matter how tired I was, I never sat down between rounds of sparring. Even when it's time for you to be replaced, you go stand outside the ring.
I read through a whole topic to see one of the most logical conclusions to Mayweather avoiding Pacquiao's counters AFTER Mayweather lands his right hand and I didn't see a single person say it...smh...: Floyd will grab Pacquiao.
If he just found his head, instead of stepping out, he'll use his forward momentum to smother whatever Pacquiao is hoping to throw back. It's a trap I've seen Mayweather use a couple of time.
He does this until his opponent starts relaxing, expecting for the ref to break them, and Mayweather begins to get free shots to the head and body. This is the space where he is wrapping up one of his opponent's arms to get short shots to the body or using that forearm for space to land those overhand rights.
I haven't seen real inside game from Pacquiao but he DEFINITELY runs the risk of simply being out-physical'd in this fight if he gets lost in the trenches. I'm sure Floyd would have no problems fighting like Andre Ward to start if it can make Pacquiao a stationary target down the line.
I'll never, and refused to try to, understand the want to throw personal slander at fighters. Not a single thing that was said in this thread is going to affect the outcome of this fight.
Actually, for Mayweather, some of this is WHY more people are going to be tuning in to see him fail.
He's finally going to share the ring with the fighter people have envisioned to be his true foil at a time where the hatred for him is at it's very apex...he's done a good job.
Now he has to win, like the people who honestly respect the "art" of boxing expect him to, and he can ride off into the sunset.
The problem with Khan was the lack of head movement. From an intellectual standpoint, I'm sure it's different when you're actually facing ANY fighter, if you get/ got the timing on touching his body, you knew EXACTLY where his head was going to be.
Garcia touched that body and ended up throwing a blind punch that would have tapped Khan right on the chin if he had moved his head back even a little bit to avoid the hook. It just happened to work just as well.
For him to be disqualified, the referee would have needed to warn him, take a point and see him continue to commit the offense. Without ANY of that happening, he should not have been disqualified.
Outside of completely blunting Mikkel Kessler's offense before coming in, Kessler should have accounted for and adjusted to the "tactic" by maintaining distance with jabs, hooks and uppercuts.
So, not only did the referee continue to allow what you have deemed offensive, Kessler did as well.
celebrities are in to attending events and having a good time, most likely, around other celebrities.
it would be no surprised that they are fans of pacquiao when they probably view boxing as nothing more than fighting with gloves on.
many of manny's fights allow people that know nothing about boxing to sit in the audience like citizens in some ancient arena and cheer the brutality.
Classic case of overrating a fighter & underrating another. I do think Sergio will win but it's not going to be an easy fight at all.
THIS is what i love to hear. this is how pound for pound fighters gain respect...by blowing out fighters you believe should give them major problems.
i did not expect martinez to eradicate williams, i did not expect him to out-jab and rubberneck dzinziruck and now, on your word, i do not expect him to have a "roy jones jr. versus random contender" fight against barker.
IF he does, and i don't mean get hit by some punches, as martinez is aggressive to the point that defense is abandoned at times to get-off, but if he does look awe-inspiring against barker, i want to see that rise in respect from both of us.
Pretty much. There is a picture floating around that has Marquez's punch directly under it with his body in a similar position to Miyata's except that Pacquiao's hand is under Marquez's arm.
As a side note, Marquez is much better than Ichiro.
The point I was making is that if Grachev loses to Bute it should show that his victory over Ismayl was lucky because he beat Ismayl so he should beat Bute.
Yes, that is the point that bothers me. Ismayl was easily boxing his ears off until he went in for the finish. Something seemed off with Ismayl from the get go and, after some fatigue, he was caught up to and caught.
There was no "luck." Being able to take a punch and give a punch isn't lucky, it's the very point of the sport. He beat Ismayl off of grit after Ismayl appeared to come in there under 100%.
Bute out-boxes him before stopping him or gets overwhelmed by that same grit that Ismayl fell victim to.
Grachev beat Ismayl so he should be able to beat Bute fairly easily. We'll basically find out in this fight whether his last win was a fluke or not! If he loses to Bute it was clearly a fluke against Ismayl imo.
It's annoying to see you use the word "fluke" twice like it was some lucky night for Grachev.
He was getting his butt-whooped pretty much that whole fight but he stuck in there. It wasn't the result of some blind punch. That was constant effort until Ismayl started slowing down a bit and getting more flat-footed to land with more power.
Exactly.
Really, the weight, order in which they walk to the ring, glove size and, MAYBE, Canelo's guaranteed purse were the only things Mayweather could really affect.
Canelo can't get as low at 147. Mayweather will walk last but be announced first. The glove size will be 10oz. Golden Boy probably added a couple of million to Mayweather's purse offer to Canelo.
The extra two pounds off is just Mayweather being a d**k when we know how Canelo makes weight already. He'll lose a bit more and balloon just as high.
Berto turned out to be exactly what he was back then and that was the problem.
After he survived Collazo, he and his camp should have seen the improvements that needed to be made to challenge the elite.
Conditioning, work rate, a real jab, more educated head movement, a more responsible defense, fighting off the back foot, fighting on the inside...heck, keeping his chin tucked better.
They had a whole list and we saw no fight changing improvement in any area. Still lacked a jab to keep fighters honest, never threw enough yet still gassed, opponents still find his head with their eyes close, he still can be backed up to the ropes and worked over due to his lack of inside fighting ability.
I wouldn't call it being on a bandwagon to see potential. I would if you said he could handle Mayweather and Manny, though.
I've always said it before that Floyd never has a game plan or a premeditated strategy if u will. He reacts on instinct using his ability to adapt and read his opponents mistakes in the ring on top of his boxing skill level.
Roger and, now, his dad watch tape. I think Floyd just watches fights, not really studying, and comes up with ideas on what he can take advantage on based upon his own strengths.
Like not watching actual film on Victor Ortiz but just noticing during his fight with Berto that he kept getting hit with right hands that lacked any sort of actual setup.
Comes out against Ortiz and starts throwing right hands immediately.
Price was an overwhelming favorite because of biased British fans refusal to bet with their brains.
If you had known anything about Brits, you'd know that no one bets against their own team.
So...Hitman932 was right.
Yes, Wilder and Mitchell come for this "land" but the people view things differently.
They have already looked shaky. If I was betting with my brain, there is NO way I put money down on Wilder or Mitchell. He was just saying that that's what the "Brits" should have done with Price.
He is better than WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO.....
Look they had a huge cash cow in lesner and when lesner was hurt and had a year layoff they didnt give him an easy fights once he returned...
Same thing with GSP when he came back.....
That would never happen in boxing...
Look Serg will comeback in 2014 after a long layoff and will take a tune-up,, if it was ufc he would be fighting GGG, or murray rematch....
And where is Lesner now? Matter of fact, how long was his MMA "career"?
He got hit with absolutely everything that mathysse threw at him.
The body shots were deep and the head shots started becoming more and more vicious as Olusegun kept slowing down.
It does not help that his best combinations were simply being walked through so, not only his body, but some of his confidence in his ability to keep another fighter off of him has been shaken.
From watching Olusegun's last fight, I believed he was out of his league but I didn't think Mathysse would come out with that such a focused and complete offensive arsenal. Mathysse didn't neglect any part of his body.
I was JUST thinking about this! He actually brought it back against Bute with devastating effect. It's just a shot that you have to feel out. It leaves him way too open to ever be using it regularly instead of in a "bag of tricks" manner.
So we are going by who has the biggest following??? Cuz it's definatly khan but Floyd can fight Garcia at 147 or Lara at 154. Small followings but better challenges for Floyd then khan. Also why does Showtime need to ensure they don't lose money with Floyd??? He's the best, the greatest, why does he need opponents with huge fan bases to sell??? He can't do it alone??? Must not be as big of a draw I guess. Majority of People tune into see him lose. That's the reality.
Yes, to a certain extent, we are going by who has the biggest following. That said, we both agree that is Khan. Garcia would be a good fight...Lara would not. To even suggest Lara at 154 means that you're simply thinking of names and throwing them out.
Mayweather/ Showtime putting the Garcia v. Matthysee match on the PPV meant that, eventually, he would fight the winner. This, essentially, puts Garcia on Mayweather's PPV schedule. If need be, he can fight a lesser champion at 147 to pick up a meaningless belt OR we can see a Hatton situation where he is labeled as a champion going into the fight...just champion at 140. THE champion at 140, btw.
Showtime is a for-profit business trying to takeover the boxing game using Floyd Mayweather Jr. as the queen piece (chess). There was an expectation that Showtime would possibly take losses with the deal but they were considering the long term possibilities. OF COURSE, they would like to make profits immediately and that, if everything that's been released holds true, comes with around a million pay-per-view buys.
I'm going to refrain from calling you stupid for questioning him as a draw because he can't sell a million pay-per-views himself and ask you these questions so you can possibly understand why what you're saying is silly: how many times did Roy Jones Jr. sell a million PPVs? How many times did De La Hoya? How many times did Pacquiao? How many times have non-heavyweights EVER sold a million PPVs and who was the A/ B sides?
Khan would be a great NAME for his next PPV even though everyone and their mother knows he has little chance.
"Blame"? LoL!
Blame Mayweather for being as good as he is that no opponent south of 160 will be seen as credible and/ or "worthy" of facing him.
Blame Showtime for needing an opponent with some sort of following to possibly recoup any losses they may incur from Mayweather's 32mill guaranteed minimum just to step in the ring.
Blame the light-welterweight, welterweight and junior middleweight divisions for not having anyone with more than a puncher's chance of challenging a 36 year old boxer (not even a boxer-puncher!).
Blame the fans for hoisting up these very same fighters every time they win or even look halfway impressive. Just a while ago, if Mayweather fought Robert, he was ducking Canelo and, if he fought Canelo, he was ducking Robert. Mayweather fought them both without so much as a scary moment.
Blame Matthysse for being exposed before he could be completely out-classed by Mayweather...without so much as a scary moment.
THEN, blame Mayweather for picking the fighter with the next largest following outside of Manny Pacquiao.
Is everyone in agreement that that right hand counter is "Marquez" style because it is, in terms of intelligent boxing design, FAR off.
That "counter" leaves him fully within Pacquiao's power base. If that "counter" doesn't land or doesn't land flush, Pacquiao can still counter with ANY weapon in his arsenal. And I mean ANY! The right hook will catch Brandon coming forward, the straight left will catch him pulling back, the left uppercut will catch him during (as he appears to be leaning over his front knee) and the left hook thrown after a forward step will catch Brandon as he's sliding off.
The GENIUS of Marquez's counter is that, even if he missed, Manny has to turn and reset his offense as Marquez uses his aggression and habit of leaning forward during his straight line attack against him.
They should be working on him slipping OUTSIDE Pacquiao's right as Manny steps in and, after Brandon gets a sense of timing/ comfort with the movement, add in how to properly throw that right hand.
I don't think that Pacquiao is going to change up the way he fights enough for that punch not to work at least one more time. The danger is that, if his timing is off on Manny's feints, he could run into a fight ending right hook.
Yeah thats the funny thing. Even after Manny got KOd...Floyd still wont fight him. Still has excuses on why not. Blah blah...blah.
floyds a coward. Oh but a rich Coward! :WORD:
And Floyd can't fight Pac with him coming off a knockout loss. Pacquiao has to rebuild his brand if his wants that payday.
I'm happy for that boy. I am disappointed that the fight left me so hollow, though. I expected more combinations on such a big night for boxing. Mayweather should have, at least, beat Canelo up to prove his point.
The risk factor is on who he fights and when he fights them. They wanted an inexperienced, flat-footed, no stamina, low work-rate that can bring in buckets of revenue for Floyd. Then just to be sure that the cards are all stacked in Floyd's favor, they get Canelo to go down to 152 CW.
Floyd Sr, "That's Canelo's plan? We want him to move because he gets tired easily"
Ellerbe, "We are fully aware that Canelo has many weaknesses and Floyd will be prepared to take full advantage of them....... Look, I know that Floyd will beat him that is why I approved the fight."
Firstoff, you NEVER know until you get in that ring and fight. That's obvious in any form of combat.
Second, EVERY fighter has many weaknesses. Pacquiao has many weaknesses. Martinez has many weaknesses. Mayweather has many weaknesses.
After 43 fights, if you're still that inexperienced, your team should be the ones to recognize it. Name another fighter at 147-154 that you could guarantee would easily beat Canelo.
Boxing fans put too much in to being undefeated. Undefeated fighters rarely give classic matches that you want to watch again and again. Alvarez will bounce back its not like he was hurt or took a horrendous beating in that fight like Ricky did when he decided to open up and go for broke Alvarez did the opposite and protected him self in the late rounds by standing off Mayweather and due to this he was just out thought, out hustled and out boxed by the greatest in the game in and around that weight. at 23 I see him coming back stronger than ever with the right training and the right encouragement from his cornermen.
Alvarez seems to rely on a personal confidence that borders on being arrogant. Gomez (GBP matchmaker) wasn't even going to put him in with Trout but Alvarez was able to convince them that he could beat Trout and gave reasons why.
The reason, in my eyes, that this Mayweather loss may be a major setback is BECAUSE HE WASN'T BEAT UP. Alvarez prides himself as a boxer and could come up with no answer for another boxer that he feels wasn't even hurting him. Alvarez didn't just lose...at the press conference, he looked loss.
The eventual move to 160 won't do him any favors as he's soon to meet fighters that (a) come in heavier than him, (b) can take any punishment he can dish out to get their shots off, and/ or (c) can box almost eveningly with him AND hurt him when their shots get through.
Let's face it, his reign at 154 was a facade. A commercial for a product that is good at what it does but can't do everything the commercial advertises.
The boy isn't a big puncher at 154. Not even close. At most, he's a good puncher. Fights against Baldomir, M. Hatton, Ryan Rhodes, Cintron, Mosley, Lopez, Trout NOR Mayweather prepare you for the fighters at middleweight that can box and bang the WHOLE fight.
If he's able to stay at 154, he can keep feasting but the opponents that he chooses as he goes back up that mountain will be HEAVILY scrutinized. To the point where it may be impossible for him to ever look like the "goods" again.
Floyd has been really out there doing a lot of interviews. I heard him on sway's show on sattelite radio. He was in NYC yesterday on another show.
My guess is CBS made major image rehabbing a part of this deal. It started with the Mayweather documentary and has continued through all access-which showtime let him executive produce.
I think colbert will do well with floyd. But I swear if I hear floyd say someone is a strong champion again I'm gonna fvcking scream.
Mayweather does have to retire that line. I'm already done with the "strong young champion", "he was a tough competitor" and "you have to give it up to him." It's one thing to not answer the question asked, it's another to continuously rehash lines.
So the fight didn't happen because of the testing issues?
So the issue now is about Arum.
Are you stupid or what?
:unitedsta
The first time around, testing was the issue. If you actually know what you're talking about, I shouldn't have to explain that.
Pacquiao, and his advisors, felt he shouldn't have to give in to that demand.
Eventually, after both fight other opponents, Pacquiao puts out that he would undergo testing. Mayweather countered with another demand involving the money split...fight didn't happen.
Just that fast we have examples of Pacquiao and Mayweather being at fault.
Arum doesn't want to work with Golden Boy and Golden Boy has decided to take the same approach. An example of this was seen when Golden Boy tried to buy Donaire's "services" to fight Mares.
ALL of this can be found with a couple seconds of keystrokes.
It would be boring to call you stupid in response.
Understand that Pacquiao and Mayweather are bigger than Top Rank/ GBP in that if they both wanted the fight, the amount of money that could be potentially generated would have made everyone, at least, content. They BOTH blew that chance BUT one went on to make the highest guaranteed purse in the history of boxing before breaking that record by dang near 10 million a fight later...while the other can't make that money in any potential fight on the horizon.
So, like I said before, how can you blame one participant in a pissing contest for trying to get the better of his opponent. They both are at fault. Stop trying to defend one side.