ballgamessuck

Aside from Floyd moving up and fighting at least a middleweight, I cant see anyone being competitive with him at this point. Not that I think this fight has a chance in hell of being made, but who else from 140 to 154 could give Floyd some trouble. How do you think this fight would play out?

What if they stopped stroking each other and fought each other instead? I see Danny winning by late round stoppage.

In the post fight interview, when asked who he wanted to fight next, why didn't he mention Pascal?

No *****. Abril owned Rios. Abril got totally screwed. Bull*****.

I believe he is. He has incredible talent that has mostly been wasted on subpar opposition while the best opposition has has repeatedly called Floyd out and been ignored and fought each other instead. He spends more time in the courtroom than he does in the ring. He curses the elderly, beats women, doesnt pay his taxes, runs with lowlife scum, is involved with trash that shoot at people in nightclubs, and thinks he is far greater than he ever was. Now I know his fans are going to accuse me of "hating", but let me make this clear. It is like the chicken or the egg. I dont make accusations about people because I dont like them, I was led by Floyd himself to dislike him because of his actions. I didnt always dislike Floyd, but he has proved that he will never grow up, never stop acting like a punk, never step up to the biggest challenges for the challenge itself, it is only about money, he has no class, the only thing he does have is incredible natural abilitly that he has mostly wasted. Flame all you want.

He has made this claim every time he has fought for the last five years, and it has only happened once, that in the tenth round after a limited Ricky Hatton gave him all he could handle. Floyd also claims that the only reason he hasnt knocked out all of his recent opponents is that the wouldnt stand and fight. That is simply a lie that can be proven by simply watching his fights. I was pleased that Floyd was so aggressive against SSM, however he did not get the KO, and it is not because SSM ran. SSM stood and traded. If Floyd does stop Ortiz, I will be impressed, and I will give him props, but I dont think he will. If Floyd does stop Ortiz, will you be impressed and give him credit? If he doesnt stop Ortiz, will you be dissapointed and even bother listening to his claims of immenent destruction the next time around?

There is the one obvious possible downside for Floyd, Ortiz could take his "0". If Floyd wins, he beat a younger, stronger fighter, and that would be awesome. If Floyd loses, he lost to a younger stronger fighter, and you can take nothing away from him for taking the challenge. Incedentally, I am critical of Floyd, in the case of him choosing to fight Ortiz, my hat is off to Floyd. I hope we see a hell of a fight.

What happens then. Do they rematch JMM and Ortiz respectively? Do they fight each other next spring anyway (for less money than they could have had)? Not asking what chance there is of them both losing this fall, just what is next for them if they do lose?

Manny has already called every bluff the Mayweathers and Ellerbe have thrown at him. The only way they can get out of the fight now is to make it appear that Manny does not want the fight. Floyd will get out of this fight in the following manner. Most top fighters fight roughly every six months. There are good reasons for this gap between fights. Fighters take damage to their bodys in training camp and during their fights, and need at time between fights to let themselves heal and stay healthy. Floyd has been averaging about once every 18 months. Floyd fights Ortiz in September, Manny fights JMM in November. Immediately after fighting Ortiz, Floyd will say he wants to fight Manny in four months, which would be January, leaving only two months for Manny between fights. Then one of two things happens, Manny accepts the date and doesnt have a proper amount of time between fight and thereby isnt 100 percent, or he says it is too little time and doesnt take the fight and Floyd and all his fans claim Manny is ducking Floyd.

I have read a lot of comments on here in the last few months basically writing off Judah's chances against Khan. I believe the opposite, I think Judah has plenty left in the tank and it wont even be a real upset if he beats Khan soundly. Considering the fact that less than a year ago Alexander was seen by many as the best at 140, and that his win over Matthysse was no more impressive than Judah's, and that Matthysse thinks Judah is a better fighter than Alexander after fighting them both, do you think Alexander was overrated or Judah underrated. If you thought Judah had little chance against Khan, do you now think differently since Judah is apparently just as good as a rising young star like Alexander?

If JMM beats Pac at 147, how much does that do for Floyds utter domination of JMM? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The arguement as it stands is welterweight is too high for Marquez, on the basis of his only venture up there, against Floyd Mayweather Jr. Most people think Floyds dominance is because 144 was too much for JMM, Floyd b1tched on the weight etc etc. Posted by The Golden Goy But if JMM is to beat Pacquiao, does that say more about JMM v Pacquiao as a match up whatever the weight? Or does it show just how easily Floyd had his way with an inferior (but still quality) counter puncher and boxer? For me, I'd say a little of both. I do believe JMM v Pacquiao would be still competitive at 200lbs nevermind 147lb, its that kind of style match up. But if JMM DOES beat Pacquiao, then you cant then deny and look back at the masterclass Floyd put on that night against one of the best fighters on the world, and I think a JMM win would only enhance Floyd's legacy more than it already is Thoughts? Posted by LarryX2001 do you give floyd credit for dominating jmm like no 1's ever done? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- no 1's beat him like that....floyd won every round..do you give him credit? If Paq beats the hell out of JMM despite having much less of a weight advantage than Floyd did vs JMM, and puts JMM to sleep in six rounds or less, will Paq haters give him credit? Probably not.

He has a pattern of waiting until just after Paq has committed to fight someone else, and then Floyd announces his own fight. May 2009, Paq is set to fight Hatton in a few weeks, announces that he will in all likelihood be fighting Cotto next, and Floyd comes out of "retirement" to announce his fight with JMM. Fall 2009, Floyd makes JMM look really bad, Paq beats the hell out of Cotto, they are set up to fight each other. Floyd starts playing the "drug test" game. Paq gets tired of the games and agrees to fight Clottey in March 2010. Shortly after, Floyd claims he is ready to fight again, and names like Nate Campbell come up. Suddenly SSM is without an opponent and Floyd has to take the fight to save face. May 2010, Paq and Floyd have easily outpointed their respective foes, again setting up the potential super fight. Floyd agains tries to bluff Paq with drug testing, but is soon "retiring" again when Paq calls his bluff and agrees to the tests. In Floyds absence, Paq annhilates Margarito and SSM, commits to fight JMM a third time in a fight JMM has been begging for and many fans want to see so Paq can put the contreversy to rest. Suddenly Floyd reappears and signs to fight yet another fighter not named Manny Paquiao. The pattern is clear as a bell. The only question is, is it all a big series of coincidences?

For several years now, Floyd waits until Paq has agreed to fight someone else and then announces his own fight. Cant be ducking Paq if Paq is alreadly committed elsewhere, right? May 2009, Paq destroys Hatton, commits to fight Cotto next, then Floyd comes out of "retirement" to fight Marquez. Fall 2009, Paq beats up Cotto and Floyd makes JMM look really bad, setting them up to fight each other. Floyd starts playing the "drug test" game. Paq gets tired of the game, and agrees to fight Clottey in March 2010. After Paq is locked into a fight, Floyd starts shopping around for an easy opponent, the name Nate Campbell seems to be a front runner. Suddenly, SSM needs an opponent, and Floyd has to take the fight to keep from losing face. By May 2010, Paq and Floyd have both easily won their respective fights, potentially setting them in motion to fight each other. Floyd tries the drug test bluff again, but Paq calls his bluff and agrees to it. Floyd "retires" again rather than face Paq. Paq goes on to obliterate Margarito and SSM in Floyds absence, then agrees to fight JMM this fall, a fight JMM has been begging for and a that many fans, myself included, want to see so Paq can put the issue to rest for good. Suddenly Floyd reappears, "unretired" again, and signs to fight somone else NOT named Manny Paquiao in the form of Victor Ortiz. A series of coincidences? I dont think so.

For the last several years, Floyd waits until just after Paq has committed to fight someone else, and then announces a fight of his own. May 2009, Paq destroys Hatton, and announces his next fight as Cotto because Floyd is "retired" at the time. Just as Paq commits to fight Cotto, Floyd comes out of "retirement" to fight JMM. Fall 2009, Floyd makes JMM look really bad and Paq wipes the floor with Cotto, Freddy Roach calls out Floyd. Floyd starts playing the "drug test" game. Paq gets tired of the games and chooses to fight Clottey in March 2010. After the Clottey deal is signed and Paq is tied up elsewhere, Floyd starts shopping around for an easy fight, with names like Nate Campbell being tossed around. SSM is suddenly available for a fight, and to avoid losing face, Floyd takes the fight. Spring of 2010, Paq and Floyd win easy unanimous decisions in there respective fights, setting them up to fight each other in the fall. Floyd starts with the "drug test" ploy again, and is surprised when Paq agrees to it, so he "retires" again. During Floyds absence from the game, Paq annhilates Margarito and SSM. He then agrees to fight JMM for a third time, a fight that JMM and many fans have been demanding, and a fight that Paq detractors have been using against him until he took it. No sooner has Paq chosen his next opponent, Floyd comes out of his latest "retirement" and chooses to fight yet another man NOT named Manny Paquiao. A long string of coincidences? I dont think so.

I think this is a very intriguing fight and am happy to see it was signed. Khan has not faced anyone with Zab's speed or credentials yet, and it has been a long time since Zab faced a championship caliber fighter. I am not a Khan hater, or a Khan lover, but I see Zab unifying and then going after Bradley, which would be an even more interesting fight. Thoughts?

First let me say that Shane is one of my favorite fighters, so this thread is not a cut on him. In fact, I think he is to be applauded for jumping back in the ring 4 1/2 months after being soundly beaten. If Shane beats Mora easily or knocks him out, obviously Shane should continue fighting. Even if Mora wins the first fight, and it isnt one-sided, I think Shane takes a book out of Vernon Forrest's book and fights him again. If Mora beats him easily, or beats him in a close fight and wins a rematch, should Shane hang up the gloves?

If Manny Pacquioa fights Margarito at a catchweight of 150 and beats him for a JMW title, then fights Martinez at a catchweight of 156 for a MW title and beats him, then fights Andre Ward at a catchweight of 164 for a SMW title and beats him, then fights Pascal at a catchweight of 171 for a LHW title and beats him, some of the idiots on here would claim Pacquiao had an unfair advantage over Pascal.

I would still be a Floyd fan, Floyd would have fought and beaten Margarito, Cotto, Shane in his prime, Cory Spinks, Kermit Cintron, Paul Williams, he would have rematched and beaten Oscar, he would have fought and likely beaten his primary P4P rival Manny Pacquiao five months ago, and would be preparing to fight Sergio Martinez for the middleweight championship this fall. And people like myself would not be trashing him.

JK1700 Undisputed Champion Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: U.K Posts: 2,424 Rep Power: 0 Points: 32,797.38 Bank: 313,195.16 Total Points: 345,992.54 Donate how can you call yourself the best when you fight damaged opponents at catchweights? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I want to know, How can Manny Pacquiao call himself the best fighter in the world when he refuses to fight the best fighters (Mosley, Mayweather, Berto) and fights damaged opponents coming off bad losses (Cotto, Hatton, Morales and now Margarito) at catchweights instead? What happened to the saying "To be the best you have to beat the best"? That obviously doesnt exist anymore. What has boxing come to that the best fighter in the sport is a guy who only fights people coming off losses at catchweights and REFUSES to fight Mayweather Jr just to avoid taking a blood test. I believe Pacquiao has damaged the sport alot and that he should retire for the good of boxing. Right now, The fight that everyone wants to see is not going to happen because the so called #1 p4p fighter in the sport refuses to be drug tested. I hate to say it, But if boxing continues like this and we get more fighters like Manny Pacquiao. I can see UFC taking over from boxing and becoming more popular and more mainstream. The best thing about boxing is when we have the best fighters fighting each other. This is what makes up historic fights like Ali vs Frazier, Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jr vs Bernard Hopkins. But now the best fighter in our sport is refusing to fight the best, Boxing is really struggling. I also think it's very bad that alot of people are hypocrital on this issue, Floyd Mayweather Jr was criticized alot for "not fighting the best" even though he won titles and 5 weight classes and beat the official champion every time. In Pacquiao we have a guy who does not fight the official champions and elects to fight damaged opponents at catchweights for vacant paper belts. But people criticize Mayweather and praise Pacquiao. I'm from the UK and this just doesnt make sense to me, Floyd is arguably the greatest American boxer since Sugar Ray Leonard. But he get's no credit for beating the best and Pacquiao gets all the credit in the world for not beating the best. I just don't understand this. Maybe somebody can help me out... __________________ "Shane came to my gym twice to negotiate the fight with Pacquiao and I asked him if he can make 142 or 143 and he said no. So I said okay there is no fight, First because you won't fight us at a catchweight and secondly, your too good of a fighter" - Freddie Roach My bets thread - http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...84#post8321784 I dont recall Berto calling out Paq, and he isnt one of the best anyway. Paq did not refuse to fight Mayweather, Paq agreed to take the tests and Floyd "retired", or is taking time off, or some other excuse. The bottom line is, Floyd is ducking Paq, not the other way around. As for your claim that Paq ducked Shane, bullsh!t. Paq had already agreed to fight Cotto, they were just hashing out details. Last but not least, your claim that Paq only fights damaged fighters is just a lie. He has taken bigger challenges over the last few years than Floyd has, and in looking at the results among their common opponents, it is little wonder that Floyd wants no part of Paq.

Its no secret that Juan wants another piece of Paq, and rightfully so. The first two fights were close enough to warrant it. Paq is my favorite fighter, but Juan is also one of my favorites, and I would like to see them fight again. However, I feel that Paq has improved drastically in the time since their last fight. In the first fight, Paq lost most of the rounds and won on knockdowns, in the second fight, the rounds won/lost was about even, meaning Paq won more rounds in the second fight than he did in the first. Paq can still make 140, he weighed in at 145 against Clottey despite eating breakfast on weigh in day. I really think that at 140 or over, Paq would make Juan and even the former version of himself look bad. I want to see the fight, I think Paq wins convincingly. Thoughts?

I give the edge to RJJ. They have both taken criticism for not mixing it up enough, Roy's reply to this was "Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit, I dont even like a fly to land on my face". Floyd and prime Roy both had great defence, blazing hand speed, very hard to hit. The biggest difference I see is punching power, I dont recall seeing Floyd score a from behind the back one punch knockout. Roy definitely gets the nod on offence.

I believe Paq will beat Marg, but it wouldnt be much of an upset if Marg won. If Marg beats Paq like a bitch, then calls out Floyd, will Floyd fight him.

Paq haters love to perpetuate the myth that Manny and his team love to weaken their opponents by "draining" them. The first lie is that Manny drained DLH to 147. True, DLH had not fought at that low of a weight in a long time. However, the real reason that DLH fought Paq at 147 is that DLH had agreed to fight a rematch with Floyd at 147. DLH fought at 150 vs Stevie Forbes in the meantime. Floyd then took a hiatus from the sport instead of taking the rematch, DLH figured Roach didnt know what he was getting into, decided to fight Paq as a replacement for Floyd, and then got his ass severely kicked. Paq has only fought one fight at a catchweight so far, that being Cotto. Cotto agreed to come in at 145, he had weighed in at 146 in his previous fight so it was no problem. Anyone watching that fight who thinks two pounds would have made a difference is nuts, Paq whips Cotto the same way anywhere from 145 to 154. Now the self proclaimed "goat" is full of excuses, and Paq wants to fight someone. Margo fought his first fight after the plaster incedent at 154, but announced his intent to return to 147. Then Floyd dropped out of Paq's radar, and the chance for Margo to fight Paq for a title at JMW came up, of course he jumped on it. Now Paq haters are saying that Paq has an unfair advantage because Marg will have to "drain" to make 150. Please explain to me how Margo will have to drain to make 150 when he already had planned to drop to 147.

Too many ducks too keep up with. Now team Floyd is claiming that there never were any talks with team Paq about a fight when everyone knows that there were talks. Floyd has been ducking Paq, and now he is ducking the rightful accusations of ducking. All the quacking is driving me quazy.

The moderator has promised to delete or close threads regarding a certain fighter who is very much in the news the last few days. I am in no way referring to the forbidden fighter, please leave the forbidden fighter out of this discussion. Originally Posted by mushahadeen JCC Jr. would be a great fighter even if he was 0-42. But the fact that he is 42-0 makes him one of the greatest of all time. This leads me to wonder who has the most worthless perfect record in the game of boxing. I would rank JCC Jr near if not at the top of most meaningless perfect records among active unbeaten fighters. A handful of active fighters I can quickly think of who are unbeaten include Berto, Shawn Porter, Bute, Ward, Chad Dawson, Alexander, Bradley, and of course JCC Jr. Throw the retired Calzahge and the deceased Valero into the mix, they are both unbeaten. Who among these and any others that I have left out has the most meaningless zero in the loss column, and the most meaningful for that matter. Remember, the forbidden fighter must not be mentioned in this discussion.

A lot has been made out of the losses, several by knockout, early in Manny Pacquiao's career. A lot has also been made about the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. has gone through 41 opponents without losing. Take nothing away from Floyds talent or ability, but he was fortunate enough to be born into a boxing family, with a father and at least one uncle (Roger, dont know about Jeff) who were professional fighters. I have seen pictures and videos of Floyd Jr. wearing boxing gloves when he couldnt have been more than three or four years old. On the other hand, Manny Pacquiao started out as a kickboxer, training in a totally different stance, and did not have the benefit of great boxing trainers raising him from childhood. Even when he came into pro boxing, he was simply a one-handed brawler. I believe it was after losing to Morales in the first fight that Freddie Roach decided to polish the diamond in the rough. Since then Paq is unbeaten, 11 wins and no losses,one draw with 8 knockouts, and has only been seriously challenged twice, those by JMM. The question is, if Floyd had been raised in Manny's shoes, and Manny raised in Floyd's shoes, is it possible that Floyd would have a handful of losses from his early career, and Manny undefeated. I know some people are going to curse my name for starting this thread, accuse me of trolling, and call this a stupid thread, but I want to know what people think. By the way, I stated recently that I would red K people who started Floyd/Paq threads before an official fight announcement, and did red K several, so feel free to take your vengeance.

If this has already been done I havent seen it. Its been a long time since they fought, but when Lewis retired it opened the door for dominance of the heavyweight division by Vitaly and Wlad. The way I remember it is that Vitaly was losing on points but beating Lewis' ass at the same time. It looked like if the fight had continued instead of being stopped for a cut that required eighty stitches Lewis was going to get knocked out. Having said that, Lewis had a history of taking challengers lightly, getting knocked out, and returning the favor in the respective rematches, ask Oliver Mcall and Haseem Rachman. As I stated, I believe that despite being ahead on points at the time of the stoppage, Lewis was on his way to losing against Vitaly, but I believe had there been a rematch he would have prepared much better and not taken Vitaly lightly. Dont know if he could have knocked Vitaly out, he seems to have an iron jaw, but it was a fight I wanted to see. What are thougts on how a rematch would have played out!

I am a Pac fan, not a Floyd fan but respect his talent and abilities, and want to see this fight worse than any other fight I can think of....BUT!! I am so goddam sick of hearing about it I could puke. I dont want to hear another word until they hold an official press conference to announce the fight. In the meantime I think I will RedK everyone on this site who starts a Paq vs Floyd thread, hell, I will even RedK myself, and throw up on my keyboard. EVERYONE STFU!!!!!!

I only started watching boxing in 1994, so I dont know about whether or not their were any pairs of brothers that were both great years before that. The two that are obvious to me know are the Klitschkos and the Marquez brothers. Who do you feel has had the better combined career between these two sets and why. Also who else should make the list. I know that Anthony and Lamont Peterson are out there, but have yet to really hit the limelight and hit the level of Jaun and Rafael. Thoughts?

Floyd had 39 fights before he retired, and never once did he ask for OST from any potential oppenent. After he retired and Paq destroyed DLH and Hatton with much greater ease than Floyd had, there started to be talk of Floyd coming out of retirement to fight Paq. Instead, Floyd fought an undersized and overmatched JMM, and did not ask for OST. After Paq wiped the floor with Cotto, the boxing public erupted with excitement for Paq vs Floyd. Suddenly, Floyd wanted to "clean up the sport". Bullshit! He was faced with someone who could seriously challenge him and very possibly take his precious 0. Forty fights and the system works fine, now he looks at someone who has done much better against common opponents, doesnt want to fight him, and looks for a way to save face. After Paq rightfully refused to let Floyd make up the rules, and after Shanes fight came up, Floyd had to demand the same OST from Shane or anyone else he fought or it would be obvious that the OST was aimed specifically at Paq, period. And before anyone throws back "Why dont Paq just take the test?", the answer is "why was testing NEVER an issue until Paq was standing in front of Floyd? Whatever the excuse, I just hope the fight gets made. Anyone who thinks Paq walks through Floyd is nuts, and anyone who thinks Paq will be easy work for Floyd is nuts. That is why it has to happen.