I just finished watching it. Very close fight. I had Castillo slightly ahead or a draw. Very entertaining fight. The first thing that came to mind was Duran would have slaughtered either one if these two guys.
Dude Garcia won the fight by a close margin or it was a draw, keith won early but ran the last part.
Haye was injured and took Bellew lightly
No he lost clearly.
Did he not impose his will?
Didn't think so but I'm going to look at it again. My first impression was Keith was always a half step ahead of Danny for most of the fight.
Most overrated boxer in the history of boxing....not only that but the Italian mafia interfered with most of his matches too
No we didn't interfere with his fights. Didn't have to..
Lol. That’s not how you score boxing. Judges don’t tally. They go by the better overall round and the 4 criteria. If you think the 4 criteria is synonymous to 2 lazy jabs over a body shot you’re dead wrong. ;)
Actually 2 stiff jabs over arm punches definitely wins it.
I don't ever criticize GGG's skills, techniques, or Ring IQ. In boxing, we discuss gameplans. In fact some fighters their whole career fight the same style... Take Gallo Estrada...amazing and entertaining fighter to watch, but imo basic if you compare that style to Canelo Alvarez. Circumstance and context is everything in prize fighting. Judges absorb that which is natural. The judges know who they were and what to expect. It's not even a big deal. I enjoyed the fight. I felt it was a glorified sparring session. that's good for the sport for new gen to watch and learn from, or preparing for a rematch. Both GGG and Canelo delivered one of the best rematch series of the last decade. Imo far better than Ward vs Kovalev. Referring to P4P elites going at it. A lot of it is preference too, not bias. If GGG and Canelo fought exactly the same, as some other fighers do, then it'd be a different scenario. Both GGG and Canelo showed skills and Ring IQ at the upper echelon level. Canelo's movement was entertaining to watch just like GGG's movement in trying to close the ring. If you like just jabs then that's all you. If you like countering and power punches along with movement then that's all me. Context is everything. It was GGG vs Canelo
If you like just jabs? You actually said that? Golovkin landed plenty of other punches and Canelo landed numerous jabs in that second fight. The fact of the matter is Canelo's power punches did not hurt Golovkin or force him out of the center of the ring in the rematch and Canelo got out landed in the majority of the rounds.
Professional judges aren't interested in amateur scoring and limited punch selection when it's a major prize fight for the top 5 P4P, especially when the judges know exactly who GGG and Canelo are. Moretti could've easily had a swing round for Canelo and there would've been two 114-114 cards. Byrd's card is irrelevant if people want to say that females can't score. Majority vote only needs 2
Yeah judges look at the effect of the punches. Canelo's so called power punches couldn't deter Golovkin or hurt him. Pro judges are supposed to look at that and not buy into the hype.
If Canelo's power punches didn't ''deter'' then why couldn't GGG close the ring on Canelo. Closing the ring EFFECTIVELY means you land points on each CLOSING assault. Hence ''closing.'' Closing the ring are pressure fighters whom usually break down their opponents whom can't fight back and are getting hurt. That's the essence of closing the ring. Elites also know how to deter those closing the ring by setting up counters and timed shots. That's what Floyd enjoyed to do because he knew distance in every inch of the ring. Golovkin respected Canelo's power which is why he didn't go to the body. That's simply because Canelo is faster to counter. that is why, GGG just fought behind a jab but was getting reciprocated with better shots from Canelo. don't get angry that it was a fair Draw.
Do you even know what a jab is? It's a scoring punch. Is one of the most effective and usefull punches in boxing. Compubox to the detriment of boxing has taken it upon themselves to seperate it from other punches which they termed power punches. It makes no difference to them if the power punches don't deter the opponent, hurt him or stop him from advancing. It takes skill and intelligence to consistantly land jabs on another highly skilled opponent who is bent on not getting hit. Canelo implemented the wrong game plan in that first fight which his corner corrected in the rematch. If both men land punches and neither one is visably hurt or intimidated by them then the punches count the same.
The only way to score round 2 for Loma is to not watch the round, and only watch the 2 highlights they showed in between the 2nd and 3rd round. The announcers and broadcast team clearly wanted Loma to win.
Even though Ward was correctly pointing out Lopez's dominance to the body and how he was using his jab to control the fight, he would then give a round to Loma where Loma did almost nothing.
This was a 116-112 to 118-110 fight. 115-113 is just as bad and maybe worse than 119-109.
Yeah I agree totally..
First one was a Draw. Posts like yours, even though you have a right to your opinion, really stir GGG diehards.
What GGG diehards and Canelo fans need to realize is that a majority of judges or the nature of judges help evaluate compubox theory. Sure fans complain about compubox, but it can't always be applied to every fight nor the same circumstances. For example high volume workrates in guys like a Santa Cruz once upon a time or a Figueroa Jr. whom would do an onslaught of punches would have a narrative of ''out worked'' their opponents (and landing) by 3:1. That's what GGG diehards and Canelo haters try to apply with the Canelo vs GGG fight. Golovkin landing 1/3 shots whom is usually an accurate puncher, and those shots were all just jabs.
So GGG diehards use a failed excuse to apply ineffective work rate and accuracy and simply go by jabs landed. Imagine if Canelo just threw jabs for all his power shots. It would look like a jab contest. This is the circumstance and context that the judges weigh and what was expected.
Moretti had it close. Had Moretti had 1 swing round to Canelo then there would've been two cards a Draw. Had Trella had 1 swing round to Canelo then Canelo would've won a split decision or vise versa. This is what GGG diehards don't understand about a close fight. You judge how to swing it from 114-114 to either fighter. Notice how no GGG diehards or industry even mention that nor the names of Moretti or Trella. Instead, they deflect to Byrd to create an instance that her vote made a difference. She couldve had it 115-113 for Canelo and it would've still been a Draw.
Fans get too emotional they don't know how to score fights. It was one of the most enjoyable fights, but fans don't respect the outcome of a Draw because they're not looking to how a balance of voting works for a decision. Their second fight was even better, different, stylistically, and a bigger war. It proves benefit of doubt to both fighters in the first fight. That's it! The fact that their performances were significantly better shows that the judges expected more from them in the first fight.
GGG missed a lot of shots trying to close the ring on each corner on Canelo. Canelo rolled with many shots, ducked, reset, went backwards in a loop over and over again each round. Casuals don't understand how hard that is. Canelo was able to keep GGG at distance every time in the fight. That's where GGG was expected to make it a close quarters fight when his ring cutting didn't work. And again, Canelo didn't do enough to win. Neither did. I wouldn't even be angry had GGG won since Golovkin didn't dominate Canelo for what was to be expected. GGG diehards know that but insist in amateur tallying for missed shots or activity vs the more composed and sharp fighter.
Who cares how hard it is to slip punches. He wasn't landing enough punches. Why would Golovkin engage in a shootout when Canelo was on the ropes. All he had to do was stay outside and throw enough punches to keep Canelo from coming forward hit him with stiff jabs and mix in some power punches. Canelo's corner was telling him to stay off the ropes because they could see as most people could that Canelo was more effective off the ropes. His fight plan was a disaster. Go back and watch the first fight again. Canelo gave away too many minutes of too many rounds moving backwards and staying on the ropes slipping shots and not punching. As far as critiquing Golovkin's use of the jab goes at least he was in an offensive posture. Who the heck wants to see two guys backpedaling in the ring for 12 rounds. This isn't amature boxing. The problem is that you are the one that doesn't understand boxing. Moretti and Trella have been critisized numerous times on the forum for their scoring of the first fight.
Yup, all 3 judges had it 7-0, so did I at home. And after rewatching it last night on the replay, none of those 7 rounds were close, at all. 7 very easy rounds to score for Lopez.
People want to give Loma the 2nd, watch it again, Loma landed a nice straight left in the middle of the round and then a 3 punch combo in the last 10 seconds, that is all he landed the entire round! The other 2 minutes and 55 seconds was all Lopez walking him down, taking scoring with body shots and generally stalking a hapless Loma. Not a close round, Lopez won it.
8 and 9 were both rounds that could have gone either way. I initially scored the 8th for Lopez and 9th for Loma, on send viewing I'd reverse that. 10 and 11 were clear Loma rounds, but Lopez had his moments in each one too. The 12th was a brutal beat down by Lopez, wow! This adjusted card for me would make my card 117-111 and all rounds exactly the same as the judge that scored it 117-111.
Just watched it for the fist time. Your scoring is about the same as mine. The second round Lopez won no question. Lopez was just too much for Lomachenko in that fight. He was too big, too strong, too fast and too smart.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-8855969/Terry-OConnor-appear-British-Boxing-Board-appearing-caught-phone.html
British judge caught on phone while officiating Ritson fight.
Getting instructions?
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/10/18/11/34531754-8852227-image-a-33_1603016612433.jpg
Yeah from his wife. Honey could you pick up a loaf of bread, a dozen eggs and some strawberry yogurt on the way home???
How do these match ups work? i.e Is Tyson Fury traveling back in time, with full knowledge of the future? Or is Tyson Fury traveling back in time, with only the memory that he was a boxer? 'Fury will only have the knowledge of that particular era, so if he travels back to 1920, then he is only educated to the level of those times.
I have made this point before? There are very few old school fighters active today. What I class as a old school fighter 'Is a fighter who can train and survive in any era'.
Floyd Mayweather, Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe, probably Roy Jones Junior are the most notable modern day fighters who's style and training methods would be unaltered with the passage of time.
Tyson Fury was ramming every sport supplement under the sun, into his body before he fought Wladimir Kiltschko 'And he is probably doing more of the same now'. Fury's training methodologies are not really old school, where as Floyd Mayweather for example 'Used predominately old school training methodologies etc.
How does a fighter like Tyson Fury go back in time, and maintain his current form? If you was to transport Rocky Marciano into 2020, he is ether going to maintain his form or improve 'The same cannot be said about modern day fighters, some of them might not even be able to survive or thrive as fighters in the same way they do now'. If they where transported back in time.
Good post. You brought up some interesting points.
Only a GGG diehard would coin “GGG/Canelo” marriage because you guys can’t live without Canelo.
Notice the forum of Canelo fans and enthusiasts don’t bring up GgG at all until the GgG lovers start spamming about their hate for Canelo. All Canelo criticism as of late has been Smith and unifications or who he should fight at 168+.
This is how we know you’re ShaneMosleySr’s account ;)
They don't bring up Golovkin because then they would have to justify how Canelo got two favorable decisions in fights he lost.
Smith dosen't use his jab and keeps doing the same thing all over looking for a counter left. GGG with his style would have broken him down with the jab and stopped him. It would have been shorter because of ggg's jab and height. Against canelo he just fought to survive.
Today's Golovkin would have stopped Smith. The guy tore his bicep and Canelo could not stop him.
I thought GGG won both fights.I thought he won 8 rounds to 4 the first fight and won 7 rounds to 6 ln the 2nd fight. Canelo gets the generous scoring in Vegas. In the 2nd fight Canelo was 27 years old and GGG was 36 years old. That is a big youth advantage for Canelo. I think Canelo is a great fighter now but I think GGG was a better fighter just not as popular. The prime GGG KOed 22 top 10 contenders or champions in a row. Nobody else fighting today can match that.
Yeah that's how I see it also.
Knowing you for a while now it does seem like your starting to come around to the reality of both those fights. Coulda swore when those fights were more recent you had them a lot wider for ggg.
I don't recall him claiming otherwise than what he just posted.
Golovkin stalks his opponents, and breaks them down
his trademark is... cutting off the ring, hellacious body-punching, and a killer instinct
FACT: we saw little/none of that against Canelo
he was either following Canelo around like a lost puppy, or missing wildly... and in the rematch, there were times when Golovkin looked downright timid
don't think the judges didn't notice that LMAO
You are saying that any fighter that changes his style in order to take advantage of what the other guy is giving him is automatically deducted points. Meanwhile in the first fight Canelo completely changed from a stalker to a safety first fighter and that's OK. If Canelo had gone to the ropes and outfought Golovkin there then sure he should get credit but that wasn't the case. He was largely ineffective and got outlanded. His best bet in that fight was to go to the center of the ring and use his advantage in hand speed to outpoint Golivkin but he stuck to a losing strategy.
How do GGG fans put it......
''If Nelo only fought GGG when GGG was 29.'' ????
Clowns :lol1:
No we put it this way. They fought twice Golovkin won both times but was screwed over by the politics of boxing.